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Thread: 09 P71 radio

  1. #1

    Default 09 P71 radio

    Hey I got a question for you guys. I have an 09 p71 with the fleet 4 button radio. I got an adaptor harness from replacement radios so I could put a higher end radio in. Well I got everything installed and have been driving it pretty much every day. The car sat for a day while I drove my 17 gt. Today I went to get into it and it was completely dead. No clicks nothing. I did notice that after I installed the radio startups were a tiny bit slower but not like a battery is about to go dead kind of slow. Itís possible the amp in that radio is going and draining the battery but only after a day of sitting? I called the company that makes the harness asking him if it was possible that maybe the harness was intermittently making contact with ground or something was pinned incorrectly and he immediately got on his high horse and ranted about how itís not possible and itís the radio. Perhaps it is the radio but could it completely drain the battery after like 24 hours? I find that hard to believe but Iím no electrical engineer. What do you guys think?


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  2. #2
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    If you got the battery/ACC wires backwards it could cause this as the radio would stay on, but you would notice that. It may also just be coincidence and something else is dragging down the battery. I've had alternators fail in such a way that they work "fine" when the car is running but still draw 0.5-2 amps through the charge cable when "off" causing the battery to drain out overnight down to within 4 hours. Pull the fuse for the radio memory (always hot) circuit and put a multimeter across it in current (amps) mode and check what the off state current draw is. If it's above 100mA, something is wrong. Not sure what fuse that will be for yours. The one marked radio will be for the power when in run/ACC. That's not the one you want. From the manual PDF for your model year, I can't find what fuse is on the memory (batt) wire. If you have a service manual for that year car, you might be able to find that. The first thing to check is if there's excess power draw after 20 minutes of the car being off (give everything time to turn off completely). If you have more than 300mA of current draw from the battery at that point, something is wrong. If not, the battery just happened to die. I've had batteries up and die pretty quick too.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for the explanation Iíll check it out as soon as I can. My work schedule sucks but I should be able to work on it Sunday.


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  4. #4

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    So I charged the battery and let the car run for a while so I could do the drain test on it the next day only to find it dead again the next day. A few days ago I again removed the battery to charge it then put it back in yesterday and even drove it to gas it up and let the alternator charge the battery too. Also I swapped back to the stock radio just to rule that out. That was around 10pm last night. About an hour ago I went outside and was greeted by a flat battery again. The same day I swapped the radio I put a new horn in it because the old one had an extra harness on it that was cut. Could that be the issue? It seems like the alternators are known to kill batteries too. Now Iíll charge it again...


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  5. #5
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Without checking for current draw and where it's actually going, if anywhere, it looks like a weak battery. A new battery won't solve the problem if it's actual current draw though. You need to check vehicle off current draw to make sure it's less than 300mA. Pull the negative cable and put a meter between the terminal and the cable in AMP mode. If you see more than 300mA, you'll need to find out where it's going.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  6. #6

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    With my schedule itís hard to put the battery in, run it and give it some time to sit before I rip into it.

    I would agree about the battery but this is the second battery. I have a feeling itís the horn circuit. The agency who owned it before me tapped into it for the siren, there might still be something somewhere hooked up thatís drawing power. That was the last thing I did before all this happened and you know what they say about that. Thanks Iíll try to get to it soon.


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  7. #7
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    For tracing the current draw, there's no need to start the car if the battery is charged. Just hook it up and start tracing.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  8. #8

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    I only started it to get the battery all the way charged. Iíll try to get this done tomorrow before work.


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  9. #9

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    I finally got around to tracing the current draw. I had my meter set to 10 amp and put it between the negative terminal and negative battery post. It was about .19 on the meter which would be too high if Iím not mistaken. So I pulled every fuse under the hood and the only one that made a difference was the ac clutch relay feed. If I took the fuse out it would drop to .12 which I donít think is much. Then when I went to wiggle the relay for the ac clutch it jumped to over .3 so I swapped it for the relay for my horn (which doesnít work anyway). No more jumping around. The other one that didnít do much was for my cluster and 8 other circuits. You could hear clicking from the drivers side dash area when I reinserted it so it definitely is doing something with the car turned off but not much. Iím at a loss here, the battery is dead so I canít do more testing. What more can I do? Iím thinking maybe it was the relay sticking open when I installed the horn then tried pressing it but I feel like it wouldíve stuck on so Iím spitballing. Any thoughts?


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  10. #10

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    Ok so I went and started pulling fuses again and it looks like 104 is my culprit. It provides power for the fuses 2, 4, 6, 8, 19, 21, 23, and 25 in the interior fuse box. All of these are related to the LCM so it looks like the LCM is at fault.


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  11. #11
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    anything below 0.3 should be fine actually. 0.19 I think is actually normal for later models. I doubt there's anything actually wrong with the LCM. I think you've really just got a bum battery. The only other thing I would check is that the alternator is actually charging (voltage over 13.2) when the car is running.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  12. #12

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    But this is the weird thing. The battery that was in it was fine up until I swapped the radio and horn then it died completely like 3 days later. Then I swapped in the new battery, but I only drove it a few days came back to it and it was flat dead too. Then I charged it, it started up fine and it died too. But the last time it lost its charge was odd. I put it in the car and had it run for 20 or so minutes with some driving. I let it sit for about 12 hours and it started up fine again. It sat for another about 8 hours and was completely flat. How does that make sense? And I looked around to make sure I was reading my meter correctly and everyone said with it on 10a a reading of 50 milliamperes would read as .05. Since my reading was .19 thatís almost 4 times as much, and with 50 milliamperes being the golden standard something is pulling down the battery at 4 times the rate it should. If Iím wrong please correct me.





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  13. #13
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    I've noticed this with some meters. They are stupid with the decimal point on a couple of settings. That said, 0.05 would be 50mA on the 10A setting. Like I said before, 0.19 is not out of the realm of normal with all the body computer, security, keyless entry, etc, etc. I've also heard of folks getting bad batteries that die pretty quick. To test this, with it charged, have someone crank the car while you read the voltage across the battery. If it drops below to 11V or lower, it's got a bad cell and should be replaced under warranty. Otherwise, there's an intermittent issue that's draining the battery and that's going to be a huge pain to track down.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  14. #14

    Default

    Thanks. It seems to me, if that isnít the problem, that it starts at night. Itíll be fine sitting during the day but itíll kill it if it sits overnight even if thatís not that as long as during the day.


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  15. #15
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    That is odd. Could be autolamp related if that's the case. If the headlight switch has an auto setting, turning it to OFF should test that theory.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  16. #16
    I post a lot...
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    If time permits charge the battery fully. let it sit for 2 days, give a quick short to pull surface charge and check voltage. Can you charge it and take it to auto zone or wherever you got the battery to check it?
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  17. #17

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    Sly, itís a plain Jane p71 no auto headlights but thatís a good theory. A thought though, dark mode is still on but I wonder if something in the lcm is activated when the doors open without the key in the ignition. Perhaps that would explain the drain I found and need to wait until itís gone to ďsleepĒ and pop the hood without the door open and then test so it thinks itís been sitting without someone getting into the car for longer. Just a thought, maybe itíll be lower I donít know.

    Jay, great idea. I can get it to an Autozone in the next couple of days. I hate leaving a battery in my car though and I would have to do that due to how far I work and little time I have. I once bought a battery years ago and it sat in my car all day. I move it to the trunk and went to my exís house. Well I started to feel a little burning around my stomach so I went to the bathroom and was shocked to see holes in my shirt! I guess battery acid leaked out of out gassed and condensed onto the battery and got on my clothes when I moved it. I might have something to put it in though.


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  18. #18
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    What voltage are you reading at the battery when it is running? If it was mostly dead, let it run a while, keep monitoring voltage at the battery. Next turn on the headlights, and the heater on full blast. Whats the voltage reading at the battery (car still running)?

    Shut off the car, if everything above is normal (13.5volts all the way to 14.9 volts is okay) disconnect the alternator, the plug AND the big battery wire--at the alternator, make sure the big wire can't touch anything, stick a bag over the end in case overnight squirrels come visiting and knock the cable about. Let car sit over night. Measure battery voltage in the morning. If its okay, short in the alternator. If it is dead, then its time to go poking at the fuses and do fuse voltage drop tests, the easy way to checj draw, also keep in mind that by opening/closing doors, pulling fuses, disconnecting the battery is going to wake up modules and give you false readings due to the module waking up. I forget how long the ford needs to sit to go back to sleep, but typically it is 20 minutes. And around 100mA during sleep is normal. Old wives tale that 65mA is the most you should see--that was fine in older cars with minimal electronics. Even my box drew 95mA at rest. I forget what my 2008 draws, but it'll be up there also, probably into the 100mA range.

    Anyway fuse voltage drop testing, quick intro https://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...parasitic-draw

    And a chart. make sure you use the right one for the fuse type you are checking.
    https://www.powerprobetek.com/wp-con...use-charts.pdf

  19. #19

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    Thanks Iíll try that in the morning. The battery has been charging for the past couple of days so it should be good to go in the morning.


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  20. #20

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    Ok so after letting it charge my battery reads 13.5v or so sitting and 14.66v while running. I got another reading after sitting for 5 or so minutes and itís around 13.25v but because the battery has been discharged a few times Iím sure itís going to be at the lower end of healthy. Anyway I tried the voltage drop test and all read 0, even the lcm fuses but this time I put a screwdriver in the latch to simulate door being closed.

    Next up, I know the alternator is brand new but I know even if itís new doesnít mean itís good so I set my meter to ac current and put them across the terminals and sure enough it says 31.1v. That sounds very high to me. I had it on the 200v scale by the way. Bad diode? Shouldnít I have picked that up when I did the original parasitic drag test? I unplugged the alternator connector (not the big one) and it didnít change.


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