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Thread: Prudence, my 87 Town Car

  1. #21
    fomoco panthers !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    I did a little searching last night and came up with a few sources in the last 10 years claiming the Personville hub caps were gone. The website painted on the side of their building is down too.

    I'm kicking myself too because a Continental with these same wheel covers came into a yard in Anaheim a couple months ago. I didn't grab them then because I already had a set and it was all the way down in Anaheim. Now I'm wondering if I should pick up a second set of something easier to find, just to use for as long as I'm in California.

    There's a hubcap shop in Santa Paula that has a replacement available, and three or four other sellers on eBay. Seems $50 is the going rate. But my wife has told me to hold off on replacing it for now - Santa might already be on the job.



    I wasn't crazy about the middle piece for a long time, but I feel like the silver trim really does a lot to unify the whole back. Before that it always bugged me how the reverse lights weren't vertically centered due to the two angles the reflector makes. (Not that the trim lines change that, but it puts the emphasis elsewhere.) The 80-84 triple box reflectors seem like a sharper looking design in my mind, but I don't think you can swap that piece out without also doing the tail lights. And figuring out different reverse lights.

    If only plastics were easier to do one-offs for. You could have a field day with these Panthers in body kits, swapping out the front and rear ends.
    I knew the original owners of Pearsonville Auto Wrecking. They must have been in their late 70s-80s. Knew their Son who past away and his kid who still has a wrecking yard in Ridgecrest. All not nice people. That wrecking yard was there since the 40s at least. acres and acres in the desert. As I said, I will look for my Hollander to get you the number. There is a wrecking yard in Mojave that used to be ok. Might be under new ownership. Victorville has quite a few in a dry lake bed. Worth a trip. Adelanto has a good size one, SR 395 N. It is a pick and pull type. I used to know and deal with them all. Barstow has one it is more like a scrap yard. Rosamond has/had one SR 14. Might as well stock up while you can. But first, listen to your wife.

  2. #22
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    ...The 80-84 triple box reflectors seem like a sharper looking design in my mind, but I don't think you can swap that piece out without also doing the tail lights. And figuring out different reverse lights...
    Yep, I agree. But yeah, there are differences in the sheet metal and 1/4 panel extensions which make that a more labor intensive mod if a dude or dudette wanted to do it. If it weren't for the calf-catching, eye sore bumpers, I'd say the 80-84's are the better looking car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Yep, I agree. But yeah, there are differences in the sheet metal and 1/4 panel extensions which make that a more labor intensive mod if a dude or dudette wanted to do it. If it weren't for the calf-catching, eye sore bumpers, I'd say the 80-84's are the better looking car.
    It took American auto makers a long time to make a bumper that met the 5-mph NHTSA standard AND looked good.
    óJohn

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    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Some had it right by the mid/late 70's but yeah, most were ugly. Why I'm usually a fan of cars '72 and under. Like, the 1972 Lincoln Mark IV is the only year to buy. Higher compression engine and better looking face.
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  5. #25
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The cars that were designed pre-5mph bumpers that got them tacked on afterward tend to be especially awful. At least things designed around them don't tend to look so out of place. Ever see a late 70s German car in both Euro and US trim? The US versions always have what looks like a railroad tie front and back where a bumper ought to be. You can tell they gave zero fucks about trying to design a car around our DOT bumpers.

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    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    GooGooG'Joob Quincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post

    That's cool! I've got an NOS "NIXON/AGNEW" bumper sticker on my '72 Newport Custom.

  7. #27
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy View Post
    That's cool! I've got an NOS "NIXON/AGNEW" bumper sticker on my '72 Newport Custom.
    Thanks. Nixon has been something of a long-running joke for me since sophomore year of college when I made a life-sized cutout with leftover print credits. I drew up new bumper stickers and printed them through some online service since I felt bad using a genuine sticker on a bumper where it'll see plenty of abuse. Obviously it's a bit anachronistic, but I figure most younger people have trouble placing Nixon and these box Panthers in time, with a lot of people guessing they're from the 70s. (A Nixon sticker is also the safer move in California than sporting regalia of some other more contemporary political figures.)



    Didn't Reagan relax bumper standards to 2 1/2 mph sometime in the 80s? I assumed that was what made the 85+ bumpers possible.

  8. #28
    fomoco panthers !
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1460.jpg 
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ID:	55458 I have had this since he was running for president. Long time ago Early 70s. Might have a few more. Everytime I see the name of your car "Prudence" I wonder where "Patience" is ? Back in the 50s there was a two girl group called "Patience and Prudence". Just brings back memories. I know I am dating myself. Maybe your second car will be called Patience ?

    Have you gone to the Nixon library and museum in Yorba Linda ? Worth a trip when Covid is over. One of the old Air Force One 707s is there as well as his birthplace.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1457.jpg  
    Last edited by Mainemantom; 12-20-2020 at 10:13 PM.

  9. #29
    GooGooG'Joob Quincy's Avatar
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    Lutrova, I dig your Gen. Jack D. Ripper "avatar"!!!

    "I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."


  10. #30
    fomoco panthers !
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    Did you get your hubcap for Christmas ? If not I found it in my Hollander book 57th edition. #720 Ford part # D5VY1130K Comes in seven colors 1974-1978 Lincoln
    $154.47 new. 15"
    Hope this helps you.

  11. #31
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I did indeed receive a replacement hubcap. The chrome Lincoln emblem is a little pitted, but the rest of it should clean up fine - and beggars can't be choosers. Will have to wait to take care of that until my wife and I get back from our near-Christmas vacation.

    Thanks for the part number. I had seen in Continental brochures the color matched inner portion, which looked pretty slick. Hard to find any that way for sale right now. Maybe the replacements were painted by the dealers to cut down on stock? Judging from some Google image searches, though, those hubcaps didn't seem to be a very popular option. I wonder if back in the day those with money to burn preferred aluminum wheel options to fancy wheel covers. BLS says $154 in '76 is $723 today. I don't know if that's for one or four, but either way it's a fair bit more than the $50/wheel they go for now.

    Haven't been to Yorba Linda yet. Both it and the Reagan library in Simi Valley are high on my to-do list and low on my wife's. So once this Covid thing blows over I'll have to make a pilgrimage while she's at the hospital.

  12. #32
    fomoco panthers !
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    Your welcome. The centers of the caps were painted at the factory color coded for the trim of the cars. If you ordered a brown car, you got brown centers. On a custom order you could order say a blue car with a white top and white center wheelcover. The price is per wheelcover!
    Reagan library is good too. I went there maybe 20 years ago. Roy Rogers Museum (if you remember him) is not to far away. I think in Victorville.

  13. #33
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Took the Town Car down to Phoenix for a week to visit my grandfather, who spends his winters there instead of Minnesota. It was a trip I made this same time last year, so I have a decent point of comparison for the last year's work. There were no mechanical issues, which is better than last year when the alternator pulley mysteriously came unbolted on the return leg.

    Fuel economy was pretty good too, averaging just north of 20 mpg across the 1200 mile trip, and nearly 22 mpg while driving in and around Phoenix. I assume mileage drops a bit when these cars get above 70-75, so maybe a road trip out East might do a little better, where speed limits aren't quite as high. The EPA claims 24 highway, but I don't know if anyone ever sees that. Interestingly, I compared ratings for my car against those of my parents and grandfather - a 2013 MKT and a 2020 Buick Enclave. Despite both of their cars running smaller V6's, all three vehicles seem to get about the same fuel economy. Obviously a crossover is physically very different, but when you consider seating capacity and how large crossovers have taken over the full size sedan market, maybe the comparison isn't so wild.

    Leaks were also improved over last year. A drop of oil comes off the rear main seal, but that's far better than the intake end seals, which leaked and dripped oil from a half dozen different spots. At this point the power steering seems to be leaking the most. It's always been noisy, but I'm not sure which way to go with it. Replace the pump, or just reseal and replace the lines?

    Wind noise has been cut down significantly since I replaced the window weather stripping. Even with the vent open and cruising at 75, I can keep the radio at a reasonable level. And the vent had to be open since I switched the car over to "heat" for the winter and heat would sometimes pour out from the floor vents, even with the system switched off. I assume that's a vacuum leak somewhere, but at least the heat is strong.

    So overall the car seems to be running solid and makes for a pretty nice highway cruiser. There's still no shortage of things to work on, but I suppose that's just part of the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainemantom View Post
    Reagan library is good too. I went there maybe 20 years ago. Roy Rogers Museum (if you remember him) is not to far away. I think in Victorville.
    You know, my grandfather also mentioned the Roy Rogers Museum when we first moved here. Unfortunately, it moved to Missouri, I think, and closed entirely several years ago. Though we still pass exits for Roy Rogers Drive and the Dale Evans Parkway every time we go to Target.

  14. #34
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    I always wonder where those wild EPA fuel economy claims originate from. They never are what they should be it seems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  15. #35
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Depends where the leak is on the pump. I did a full teardown on one and it never worked again, but the shaft and body seals aren't any big deal to do. Still not sure why I failed so badly at the teardown, there isn't much inside, but whatever I did it refused to pump. Didn't leak or make any noise though.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #36
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy View Post
    That's cool! I've got an NOS "NIXON/AGNEW" bumper sticker on my '72 Newport Custom.
    The last F series truck had that same sticker on the rear bumper, it was gone within ten minutes of parking in our driveway. Considering the Watergate scandal and his impeachment, I can't understand why "Nixon, now more than ever" would be something to boast and slap on a car. Maybe that's the joke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    ...Fuel economy was pretty good too, averaging just north of 20 mpg across the 1200 mile trip, and nearly 22 mpg while driving in and around Phoenix. I assume mileage drops a bit when these cars get above 70-75, so maybe a road trip out East might do a little better, where speed limits aren't quite as high. The EPA claims 24 highway, but I don't know if anyone ever sees that...
    My TC averages 24.xx or better if I keep it at 60 or 65. It tanks pretty bad if I push beyond 75. That EPA rating must have been done at 55mph, where it'll do much better than 24. I used to be a lead foot, but found on road trips it's much more comfy and relaxing to just ride the middle or slow land doing 60 or 65. This way I found myself not having to be annoyed by passing slow people or disengage cruise control. Try it some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    ...Interestingly, I compared ratings for my car against those of my parents and grandfather - a 2013 MKT and a 2020 Buick Enclave. Despite both of their cars running smaller V6's, all three vehicles seem to get about the same fuel economy. Obviously a crossover is physically very different, but when you consider seating capacity and how large crossovers have taken over the full size sedan market, maybe the comparison isn't so wild.
    The thing I like to think about is the technology and price difference between them. Those newer things are all quad cam, quad valve higher compression engines with mile long timing chains and basted with plastic & packed tighter than sardines in a tin. They're all probably direct injected too. Whereas a box is running a lower cube V8 with lower compression and a single cam and just two valves per cylinder. Top fuel dragsters are proof you don't need more than two valves per cylinder.. All that extra complexity comes with a cost. I highly doubt they'll still be running when they're thirty plus years old. A couple of screwdrivers, a 99 piece socket set and a voltmeter can take you far with these by comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    ...And the vent had to be open since I switched the car over to "heat" for the winter and heat would sometimes pour out from the floor vents, even with the system switched off. I assume that's a vacuum leak somewhere, but at least the heat is strong...
    That's normal.
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  17. #37
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    The last F series truck had that same sticker on the rear bumper, it was gone within ten minutes of parking in our driveway. Considering the Watergate scandal and his impeachment, I can't understand why "Nixon, now more than ever" would be something to boast and slap on a car. Maybe that's the joke?
    It's more tongue in cheek than an endorsement. I suppose it started more as irony, as Watergate is probably the first thing that comes to mind when you mention Nixon. But it's been almost 50 years since his presidency, and with time all triumphs and controversies fade into historical footnotes. In hindsight, there are probably several more controversial decisions he made than the break-in coverup that have major implications today, like China, the EPA, and blowing up Bretton Woods. But whatever his legacy, the sticker's an eyebrow raiser, and I like to keep people guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    The thing I like to think about is the technology and price difference between them. Those newer things are all quad cam, quad valve higher compression engines with mile long timing chains and basted with plastic & packed tighter than sardines in a tin. They're all probably direct injected too. Whereas a box is running a lower cube V8 with lower compression and a single cam and just two valves per cylinder....
    I'm just amazed that for all those decades of advancement, it still takes about the same amount of fuel to move 4-6 people comfortably. I suppose some gains are lost to weight with all the safety equipment and other gizmos these newer vehicles have. On the other hand, new metal composites and more efficient manufacturing ought to shed weight. And aerodynamically, there was nowhere to go but up when compared to a Box Panther. As for longevity, I guess only time will tell. Will we even still be able to daily drive boxes in 20 years, or will driving any gas car be made difficult?

    Anyway, I haven't looked at the power steering yet to find the source of the leak. But from my recollection this summer, fluid was coming from one of the hose connections to the pump. Will have to investigate.

    My wife and I took a trip to Vegas this weekend. Saw plenty of very expensive cars, from Maybachs to Lambos, and a beautiful 60s Camaro SS, but otherwise nothing pre-90s. We also drove out to the Valley of Fire State Park about an hour east of town. Some very pretty desert out there - and nice rocks. I got a couple shots of the car just before dusk. In that lighting you can definitely tell where I still need to de-oxidize the grille. (More pictures of the park are in the link on the images below.)




  18. #38
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Looks very similar to my TC when it was in Arizona several years back. They really do look sexy in black with that formal roof and tinted windows.

    Volumetric efficiency and stuff. I suppose Or as my buddy would say, "you still have to feed the pig." An I.C.E. is just that, and while engineers and stuff have made advancements, the core or crux of the technology must be observed. So they get you in the showroom with buzzwords like "Skyactiv" or "Direct Injection" blah blah, but all I see is the same crap they've been doing since the turn of the 19th century- exploding gas/air mix within a cylinder for propulsion. So for me, it isn't important as to how technologically advanced they can make it, but rather how reliable and easy to service it is.
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  19. #39
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Nice pictures!

    Quite the opposite of my road trip last week, LOL. I saw plenty of snow and sub-zero temps.
    My '98 did over 27 MPG at 55 MPH, my '89 was just over 25 MPG at 55 MPH. Not a huge difference, at least not a big enough difference to make me consider my whale over my box for a long trip. My Yukon on the other hand... that's a big enough MPG difference to strongly dissuade me from long tripping that thing. Although easily hauling all our luggage and/or towing is the tradeoff that could convince me to pick the Yukon.
    Vic

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    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
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  20. #40
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Considering the Watergate scandal and his impeachment,

    l.
    he wasn't actually impeached. Resigned before that happened.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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