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Thread: Prudence, my 87 Town Car

  1. #381
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Mostly curious as to the repair. The dealer told my friend he had a real main seal leak (nothing on the ground and not much mess under the engine). I think they wanted over $850 for the repair.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  2. #382
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    The trans is being pulled for a rebuild. I've only asked the shop to look at the rear main seal as a 'while you're in there' job. Valve covers were replaced with the blue Fel-Pro gaskets by the previous owner, and I did the lower intake and PCV myself two summers ago, so the top of the engine is nice and dry.

    If I was only after the oil leak, $850 would be a pretty steep price to pay, but so would doing the job myself. And so I've lived with a little oil spot in the garage for the past year. Not a big deal to me, especially when we're renting. But it is nice to get things buttoned up when the opportunity presents itself, and now is one of those times.

  3. #383
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    while the trans is out it makes perfect sense to change or at least check it.

    As for the 850 for a leak that isn't hitting the ground, big no on that one. I dislike puddles and adding oil between changes but I'm not doing a lot of work for something that isn't leaking enough to offend even my very limited tolerance.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #384
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    while the trans is out it makes perfect sense to change or at least check it.

    As for the 850 for a leak that isn't hitting the ground, big no on that one. I dislike puddles and adding oil between changes but I'm not doing a lot of work for something that isn't leaking enough to offend even my very limited tolerance.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #385
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Agreed! That was only an estimate my friend requested when his car was in for something else (while I was in the hospital and couldn't help him). He has NO intention of doing that repair unless something gets drastic.
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  6. #386
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I heard back from the trans shop and it looks like the Town Car will be getting a wide ratio gear set. I had asked them to price out both that and just a 2" overdrive band, and it looks like they went the 4R70W route for both, probably because that's what they already had on hand.

    The manager told me they use a transgo junior kit to help with the late 1-2 shift from the wide ratio gears. Or at least that's what I understood. I had said I was looking for durability, not performance, when I dropped off the car. But we'll see how it drives when they get it back together. Hopefully it has a little more pep off the stop lights. Longevity will take longer to assess.

  7. #387
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Off the line will feel like the rear gears are a good deal higher ration than they are. The 3.55L rear in the Mad Marquis (88 MGM) felt more like 3.73 or 4.10s off the line. 3rd and 4th though felt like normal... ie: no gut whatsoever.

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  8. #388
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    3 is the same ratio, 4 is slightly shallower but not enough to matter in a practical sense. I think its 0.67 vs 0.71 or something? Very slightly more RPM on the highway.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  9. #389
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    So a wide ration set actually has a higher highway rpm? I am sure you are correct but it seems counter intuitive.
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  10. #390
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Yes, the wide ratio OD is 0.7:1, which at 70 mph with a 3.27 rear end is an increase of 85 rpm. But I'm also gaining the 2" overdrive band, which I believe should make 4th robust enough that I won't have to care what gear it's in while driving around town.

    I'm also headed back to the East Coast soon, where speed limits tend to be lower and the difference in cruising rpm will be smaller.

  11. #391
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Yeah... it's 1st and 2nd that are lower in the wide ratio gears that makes it feel different. The wide ratio is between 2 and 3. Stock gears in the aod(e) are straight ratio.

    AOD(e): 1st, 2.40:1; 2nd, 1.47:1; 3rd, 1.00:1; OD, 0.67:1; Reverse, 2.00:1.

    4R70W: first gear, 2.84:1, second gear, 1.55:1, third gear, 1.00:1, overdrive, 0.70:1 and reverse, 2.32:1

    The difference isn't much by the numbers, but when multiplied out, it did make a difference. Doing some math... 3.55 rear with the wide ratio first - you get 10.082:1. With the straight ratio gear you get 8.52:1. To get 10.082 with straight ratios you need 4.2:1 rear gears. So yeah... 1st with the 4R70W gears will feel more like having 4.10 gears in the rear than the 3.55 gears that were actually there. This is the one reason I wish I had a wide ratio trans in my 93. That first gear pull is fun.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  12. #392
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    Yeah... it's 1st and 2nd that are lower in the wide ratio gears that makes it feel different. The wide ratio is between 2 and 3. Stock gears in the aod(e) are straight ratio.

    AOD(e): 1st, 2.40:1; 2nd, 1.47:1; 3rd, 1.00:1; OD, 0.67:1; Reverse, 2.00:1.

    4R70W: first gear, 2.84:1, second gear, 1.55:1, third gear, 1.00:1, overdrive, 0.70:1 and reverse, 2.32:1

    The difference isn't much by the numbers, but when multiplied out, it did make a difference. Doing some math... 3.55 rear with the wide ratio first - you get 10.082:1. With the straight ratio gear you get 8.52:1. To get 10.082 with straight ratios you need 4.2:1 rear gears. So yeah... 1st with the 4R70W gears will feel more like having 4.10 gears in the rear than the 3.55 gears that were actually there. This is the one reason I wish I had a wide ratio trans in my 93. That first gear pull is fun.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  13. #393
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Got the Marti Report last week:



    But I thought I'd put together a report of my own. The Marti Report includes a good deal of fluff, or information that I don't find particularly interesting. It's also not the most aesthetically appealing. So I took from it what I found most relevant to my own car and combined it with the vehicle history available on the Orto app. Thanks to Tiggie (I think?) for mentioning Orto in another thread. Finally, I scoured dozens of Town Car listings online to find as many original window stickers as I could to try and piece together the original MSRP for my particular vehicle. I'm not 100% certain on the cost of the dual exhaust, auto dim mirror, or the digi dash, but otherwise I think the rest is accurate.


    It appears that I'm the fifth owner, and the odometer has rolled over. I had figured out the Jacksonville DSO some time ago, but it never clicked that it was originally a Florida car. Between Florida and the Pacific Northwest it's no wonder there's rust inside the cabin. And boy was Florida a prime location for Town Cars, with the local DSO responsible for nearly 10% of all Town Cars made that year.

    I have a few questions on the second owner/lessee's time. Who leases a five year old car and then puts on over 13,000 miles in six months? Was the lease only half a year, or did the dealer take the car back early for some reason, leading to it going up for auction?

    I'm also interested, but not surprised, to see it was stolen, given how rough South Tacoma and Lakewood were and still are. That must've been when the ignition cylinder was replaced, as the ignition key has a black rubber Ford handle - no Lincoln decals.

  14. #394
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Yours was a very early '87 model much like my car was a very early '88. Boy, the digi dash and JBL audio system were spendy options. Interesting that for '87 there was an upcharge for leather interior. I'm pretty sure that for '88, it was a no cost option, a preference deal. I did not know you could get dual exhaust without the tow package. Now that I think of it, I do remember seeing sales videos of early Town Cars where it was an option.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  15. #395
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Nice reports. Looks like she was loaded up.

    I wonder if Marti can do the option breakdown for our cars like they can the 60's/70's cars, where you end up with a number 1 of 1 or something like that. I'm sure they have the data to do it, I just don't know if they have broken it down that far yet.
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  16. #396
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    I like what you put together. Looks very official.
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  17. #397
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    An idea about the time and mileage on the lease. Livery companies lease vehicles as needed and put allot of miles on them in a short time. In those years, the full size (pre 1990) models were highly desired. A five year old Towncar would still look in style.
    As far a auctioning a leased vehicle. That was common then and extremely common today. Generally the dealer, if involved at all, is the middle man until it is sent to auction.
    One of my Lincolns was purchased in NY then sold at auction in Washington State. I bought it in WA.

  18. #398
    fomoco panthers !
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    Default Prudence, my 87 Town Car

    An idea about the time and mileage on the lease. Livery companies lease vehicles as needed and put allot of miles on them in a short time. In those years, the full size (pre 1990) models were highly desired. A five year old Towncar would still look in style.
    As far a auctioning a leased vehicle. That was common then and extremely common today. Generally the dealer, if involved at all, is the middle man until it is sent to auction.
    One of my Lincolns was purchased in NY then sold at auction in Washington State. I bought it in WA.

  19. #399
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat
    Yours was a very early '87 model much like my car was a very early '88. Boy, the digi dash and JBL audio system were spendy options. Interesting that for '87 there was an upcharge for leather interior. I'm pretty sure that for '88, it was a no cost option, a preference deal. I did not know you could get dual exhaust without the tow package. Now that I think of it, I do remember seeing sales videos of early Town Cars where it was an option.
    Was there something about the first '87s still using the nylon timing chain? I thought I read something like that here previously, but I can't find it now.

    Digi dash and JBL were spendy, but the priciest option I ran across was the moonroof. Looks like it ran about $1300 in '87. Packaged options could run higher - the Sail America Town Cars were a $2,456 upcharge - but you were getting a bundled deal that probably ran close to that cost anyway. The full length 'carriage roofs' could also burn a hole in your pocket. One in '89 would set you back $710. I'm not sure leather was a no charge option in '88, as I have a window sticker from '91 where it's going for an extra $570. By that time though the leather steering wheel had become a standard feature.

    The dual exhaust is an interesting point. I don't see it listed as an option in the 1987 brochure, yet the dealer managed to order it without the rest of the tow package. A limited slip diff is listed, however, and ran $101 in '87. What exactly did the tow package include? Dual exhaust, wiring for a trailer, limited slip, and trans and PS coolers? I don't believe a hitch was actually part of the deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggie
    I wonder if Marti can do the option breakdown for our cars like they can the 60's/70's cars, where you end up with a number 1 of 1 or something like that. I'm sure they have the data to do it, I just don't know if they have broken it down that far yet.
    I wonder if it's an issue of not having everything digitized yet. The labor involved in finding what makes your car unique would be the same regardless of model, but without a computer to help with the search it probably wouldn't make much business sense. And I guess if you're going to sink the initial cost of scanning a bunch of documents to be able to run those searches, you'll make your money back on Mustangs long before you'll ever recoup the costs of a Box Panther database. In the case of our cars though, it's a little silly to call out how many had the same engine/transmission codes for vehicles with only one of each to choose from. It's one of the irrelevant bits on there that make me feel like the report is a lesser value for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mainemantom
    An idea about the time and mileage on the lease. Livery companies lease vehicles as needed and put allot of miles on them in a short time. In those years, the full size (pre 1990) models were highly desired. A five year old Towncar would still look in style.

    This makes sense to me. Especially since it's a black on black car. When I bought the car I thought it was more or less a one owner vehicle. Turns out it's had quite a life across opposite ends of the country.

  20. #400
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC
    I like what you put together. Looks very official.


    Thank you. I really enjoy this sort of graphic design and typesetting work. And it's much easier to do while watching the kid than trying to turn a wrench.

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