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1985 Engine Camshaft help

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    #16
    Originally posted by sick88tbird View Post
    I just saw FAST EZ-EFI and scrolled past everything else to give this warning...DON’T DO IT! The system is garbage, the processor s-l-o-w, among a host of other problems. I’ll probably use mine for target practice after I switch back to the stock multi-point type injection...I’m either tuning with a Quarter-horse or an Anderson PMS. I have both in stock so, who knows.
    I'd love to get your opinion on these or a TwEECer. I want a cost-effective option for my car since I'm planning to use a Mark VII computer to retain my cruise control. I was originally wanting to go MS, but it looks like they don't sell the DIY kits anymore. The PnP setups run north of $800.

    Originally posted by Brown_Muscle View Post
    I was assuming you had a stock converter, like Kodachrome said, it shouldnt be too bad in that case. I'd personally still shoot for something with low end grunt...when it shifts to third and youre trying to accelerate moderately at 1500rpm its nice to have some torque. I like the comp cams series... like an XE258 or XE264
    Just out of curiosity, if one were to go with a cam and heads comparable to a stock HO Mustang, would one simply be able to get away with a Mustang AOD converter? Or is the extra weight of the car also a factor?
    —John

    1985 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat
    1990 Mercury Grand Marquis LS (POTM March 2017 & May 2019 - gone, but not forgotten)
    1995 Mustang SVT Cobra coupe (cream puff)
    1966 Mustang coupe (restoration in-progress)

    Comment


      #17
      The mustang converter is around 1800, which i'm assuming is not as big of a deal with the lighter car. I'd still get one with a higher stall, like 2300-2500.

      Also since we are talking about fuel injection systems, I would look into the Holley Sniper. A lot of people who switch from FAST, or EZ-Efi seem to like it. I'll be getting that system in a couple months
      -Phil

      sigpic

      +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

      +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

      Comment


        #18
        for whatever its worth to you, my car has a standard converter in it. Only thing close to non-typical is the 3.55 rear, which is actually stock on mine. Still works well, but a slightly higher stall converter would probably be a benefit. I'm just not interested in yanking the motor or trans to make that happen.

        I'm running a Quarterhorse with a mass air ECM. Works just ducky, but it ain't the cheapest thing. I bought that ECM years ago when they weren't expensive but now the pricing is dumb. If that will tune a Mark VII ECM, that gets you in at a much lower entry price, though you still have to buy the tuner and be aware that you're dealing with 30 year old electronics. The caps on my ECM were leaking and there is a bit of board rot under them. I would kind of expect this to be the case on most old ECMs at this point.

        And then find someone that speaks speed-density. Everyone in the Mustang world has been converting SD systems to mass air since like 1989 so in-depth understanding of EEC-IV SD seems fairly rare. Oddly enough most of the aftermarket EFI systems are speed-density so its not like its a terrible control system, it just has to be tuned correctly. In a way its actually dumber than a carb is. If you suck more air through a carb, it will give more fuel up to the point that it runs out of jet. SD doesn't even do that since it has no idea how much air is actually flowing, it only knows what it was told. Stuff with a wideband and more brain power than existed in 1986 can probably fix itself to a large degree but not so with the old tech.

        there is another system called rusEFI, though beyond knowing it exists and apparently has a plug-in EEC-IV version I know very little about it. Probably comparable to the MS stuff, so if you were into that, maybe worth checking out.
        https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1684
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment


          #19
          Seems like the general consensus is to go Hydraulic Roller.

          If I do this:
          -I need to tap the lifter valley
          -I need the dogbone retaining plate & dogbones
          -I'd need to swap firing order, but im still CFI, so I'd have to do a fuel injection swap to the SEFI and re-pin the wiring harness
          -I'd need to get the EFI intake, the 8 injectors, the fuel rails, the TB and the transmission cable and linkage figured.
          -I would need the steel distributor gear for the hydraulic roller cam

          I might be missing some stuff but all of this just to throw in a little bit bigger cam?

          I really thought that I could just get a hydraulic flat tappet cam with a bit more RPM range and a little bit more performance and just toss it in, measure PTV, measure for pushrods, break it in, maybe play with the injector duty cycle and spark table and call it a day.

          I guess I am sadly mistaken.
          1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
          1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

          Comment


            #20
            Why'd you need SEFI swap to change the firing order? Just swap around the plug wires, surely the CFI is dumb enough to not care about that.
            Since you are on CFI you don't have to worry about injector firing order as the cfi injectors shoot fuel all the time.

            Since you're pretty certain that you have the dogbone retainer bosses in the block, you're genuinely drilling and tapping two holes away from a roller cam. Were you intending to reuse the stock flat tappet lifters if you went with just another flat tappet cam? (I dunno if it good or bad, just realizing you might pull that off without removing the intake...)

            Looking around, roller 302 cams are inexpensive, better variety and many come in kits with the roller lifters and dogbones.
            Stock style roller lifters are quite cheap too.

            What are you using to tweak the CFI ECM? Since you have heads, headers and so on.
            1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
            1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Arquemann View Post
              ...Since you are on CFI you don't have to worry about injector firing order as the cfi injectors shoot fuel all the time...
              The firing order is determined by the camshaft, so pretty sure you can't just swap the plug wires around.
              1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
              1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
                The firing order is determined by the camshaft, so pretty sure you can't just swap the plug wires around.
                This thread is about swapping camshafts, so if he were to swap in a cam with the HO firing order, he would only need to swap the plug wires. Yeah?

                And the bit you quoted about the fuel injectors was a positive note since the CFI dual injectors most likely don't have a "per cylinder" activation and the injector timing has probably nothing to do with cam/crank position, bacause that would be dumb. Like a carb, CFI pisses fuel far from the finish line and it doesn't care which cylinder it goes into.

                If you were to put a "standard" firing order cam into an HO motor and switch the plug wires and not do anything to the injector firing order, it would probably run like shit.
                1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
                1995 Chevrolet Caprice Classic STW, "Sally"

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by sluggish91 View Post
                  I really thought that I could just get a hydraulic flat tappet cam with a bit more RPM range and a little bit more performance and just toss it in, measure PTV, measure for pushrods, break it in, maybe play with the injector duty cycle and spark table and call it a day.
                  I think I'd do just that and see what happens. Might want to check into the tuning. Don't know that anyone has ever tried to tune a CFI. You are one the forefront of CFI performance!
                  1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                  1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                  GMN Box Panther History
                  Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                  Box Panther Production Numbers

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Yes you can stick a bigger flat cam in, the roller lifter swap is more of a durability thing. Modern oils don't play so nice with flat cams, and I've heard of people that have lots of experience with flat cams having problems wiping out lifters. They claim its the lifters aren't made right, I don't know, only that I despise doing things multiple times. For me, if the choice was stick a cam in and maybe it works and keeps going forever or drill 2 holes and install some used parts that I can get for very cheap and have a cam that i know is going to work forever, I'm doing that second thing. If you can't find someone with a junk roller 302 laying around that will sell you the dogbones, hold down, and stock pushrods for almost nothing I'd be amazed. At that point its just the same cam and lifter set you were gonna buy anyway so the cost is very similar.


                    The plug wires change if the firing order changes. Depends what cam you go with. Not a big issue, the ECM doesn't know or care about this at all.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #25
                      I found the dogbones and lifter spyder on a Mustang forum for $10 over the holiday weekend. A great score, I'd say.

                      And I completely forgot I had a 95 Cobra cam put away behind of all my engine stuff.

                      Maybe I will do the cobra cam and the hydraulic roller conversion.

                      I already have a set of hydraulic roller lifters from some old projects.

                      This would leave only the pushrods to account for, which I could more than likely source from the junk or from a friend.

                      I will keep everyone posted on my decisions and/or results. Wish me luck.
                      1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
                      1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Good luck. I don't have a complete set or I'd offer them up. If you end up a couple short I can probably cover you but I don't know how many I have left. Some were bent, I think 2 I cut up for something, and a few have been re-purposed for other things.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #27
                          stock replacement length non hardened pushrods are are so cheap, i wouldn't even consider scrounging round a JY for them... the most expensive option on rockauto is $2.69/pc

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Don’t waste your time with a “Cobra” cam, they are one of the goofiest cams in the FoMoCo line-up. The same cam was installed in certain year T-Birds/Cougars(starting in ‘92, I think), this cam was designed to scrub low-end torque to reduce the chances of drivetrain warranty claims. It has less overlap than a base 5.0 roller cam, goofy cam timing and a seriously wide LSA of 118.25*…no bueno. Even the HO cam feels lazy under 2500-3000rpm with its 115.5* LSA…the base 5.0 roller? Has an LSA of 107.5*, making it feel punchy as hell down low and right off idle, it just suffers from not enough lift and duration.
                            '85 CV coupe- 351W, T5-Z, FAST Ez-Efi, shorty headers, 2.5" duals with knock off flowmasters, 2.5" Impala tails, seriously worked GT-40 irons, Comp 265DEH cam, 1.7rr's, Mallory HyFire 6A, Taylor ThunderVolt 50 10.4mm wires, 75mm t/b, 3G alt swap, 140mph PI speedo, PI rear sway bar, '00 PI booster/MC, 95-97 front spindles, '99 front hub bearings/brakes, '92-'94 front upper control arms/ball-joints, 3.73's with rebuilt traction-lok, '09 PI rear disc swap, '96 Mustang GT wheels with 235/55R17's.

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