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    1985 Engine Camshaft help

    Hello friends, I am seeking help with my 1985 engine.

    I will be upgrading the camshaft to something with specs close to a stock Mustang cam.

    My questions are as follows:

    Which do I get: hydraulic or mechanical flat tappet cam?

    Engine is a 1985 Standard Output 5.0L (non roller)

    What material does the new cam gear need to be?

    Distributor is the TFI style.

    Thanks for the help.
    1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
    1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

    #2
    I think the standard flat tappet lifter for ‘85s is hydraulic, even on a HO setup. I’d probably go with that from a noise/maintenance standpoint. A mechanical lifter will make a little more noise and will definitely need periodic lash adjustments to keep everything happy.

    The cam gear should be cast iron for flat tappet.
    Last edited by Kodachrome Wolf; 06-21-2021, 01:35 PM.


    My Cars:
    -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
    -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
    -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
    -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

    Comment


      #3
      what block do you have? Some 85 blocks are roller-capable. if you find the block casting number, an E5 number would indicate it could have the roller bits added, just have to drill and tap the two bosses in the lifter galley and install the retainer and the dogbones.

      No mechanical lifters, they aren't usable with the stock style heads anyway. No mechanism for adjustment.

      flat cams get iron distributor gears, roller cams get steel gears.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #4
        If going with a cam for a mustang firing order your plugs will not be firing on the correct cylinders.
        ~David~

        My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
        My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

        Originally posted by ootdega
        My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

        Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
        But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

        Originally posted by gadget73
        my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
          If going with a cam for a mustang firing order your plugs will not be firing on the correct cylinders.
          Thinking about this....85 would be tfi injection...dual injectors..just swapping firing order would fix the issue??? Are the intakes dual plane so one injector feeds 4 cylinders and the other feeds the other 4? 15426378 13726548 are the firing orders. I think it wouldn't work.....
          ~David~

          My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
          My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

          Originally posted by ootdega
          My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

          Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
          But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

          Originally posted by gadget73
          my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




          Comment


            #6
            wouldn't make any difference. No need to swap injectors around. It wouldn't be any different than a carb really, its just sucking air and fuel through the hole.

            I suspect its going to run lean and not work overly well unless it gets larger injectors and probably a tune to make it cooperate, but thats unrelated to the firing order.
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
              what block do you have? Some 85 blocks are roller-capable. if you find the block casting number, an E5 number would indicate it could have the roller bits added, just have to drill and tap the two bosses in the lifter galley and install the retainer and the dogbones.

              No mechanical lifters, they aren't usable with the stock style heads anyway. No mechanism for adjustment.

              flat cams get iron distributor gears, roller cams get steel gears.
              Where do I find the casting number?

              I can double check it is E5 but when I installed the lower intake I do remember seeing the two flat spots in the lifter galley.

              Would it make more sense to tap the lifter valley and use a hydraulic roller cam instead of the hydraulic flat tappet cam?

              And, if I did choose to go hydraulic roller, wouldn't I also need to get the steel gear on the distributor, seeing as the 85 block comes with a flat tappet cam, and therefore must currently have an iron gear?
              1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
              1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
                Thinking about this....85 would be tfi injection...dual injectors..just swapping firing order would fix the issue??? Are the intakes dual plane so one injector feeds 4 cylinders and the other feeds the other 4? 15426378 13726548 are the firing orders. I think it wouldn't work.....
                The camshafts I am looking operate with the Standard Output firing order. Just something OTS I can get at Summit.

                They are just similar to Mustang specs. They have close lift ratios and have a 114 lobe separation angle.
                1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
                1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                  wouldn't make any difference. No need to swap injectors around. It wouldn't be any different than a carb really, its just sucking air and fuel through the hole.

                  I suspect its going to run lean and not work overly well unless it gets larger injectors and probably a tune to make it cooperate, but thats unrelated to the firing order.
                  I'm going to figure something out about the tune.

                  I have options:

                  I could use a tweecer to see if it works with the factory computer and the two injectors.

                  I could use the engine/injector harness/computer out of my dad's 91, which is available for me to use.

                  I could do the FAST EZ EFI or the Holley EFI stuff but maybe I will try to stay away from this option because it is out of my range this year for this project.

                  Its all for experimentation purposes anyways.

                  The camshafts that I am looking at aren't too radical, they have under .500 lift and use a 114 LSA. Maybe that will help it play nice with stock ECU.
                  1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
                  1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If you're doing it, go with the HO firing order, you'll save your bearings, its a much better firing order. If you're able to convert it to roller, do it, you wont have to deal with break in, and its more efficient. Also imitating a mustang cam probably isnt the best idea, they have no down low grunt which is needed for these heavy cars. You can find something similar that will fit the torque converter stall and make the car scoot below 2500rpm as well as above it.

                    Yes if you go roller you'll need a steel gear

                    Just my 2 cents
                    -Phil

                    sigpic

                    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

                    +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Brown_Muscle View Post
                      If you're doing it, go with the HO firing order, you'll save your bearings, its a much better firing order. If you're able to convert it to roller, do it, you wont have to deal with break in, and its more efficient. Also imitating a mustang cam probably isnt the best idea, they have no down low grunt which is needed for these heavy cars. You can find something similar that will fit the torque converter stall and make the car scoot below 2500rpm as well as above it.

                      Yes if you go roller you'll need a steel gear

                      Just my 2 cents
                      Thanks for your response and the information.

                      I just figured matching something like a Mustang cam would make it drive more like a stock Mustang but it seems I was wrong in my assumption.

                      Would you have any recommendations on what specs to be looking for in a cam that would be better suited for these larger cars?

                      I currently have a 2400 stall converter.
                      1985 2-Door: CFI, K&N Filter, Edelbrock Performer 289 Intake, E7 Heads, BBK Shorty Headers, Summit H-pipe, Hooker Max Flow Mufflers, E-Fan, 3G Alternator, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, Bilstein Rear Shocks, Rear Lowering Springs, KYB Front Shocks, Front Lowering Springs, FTI 2400 Stall Converter, PA Performance Valve Body, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear, Eaton LSD Differential - I own the fastest CFI powered box to the 1/8th mile: 9.658@70.74mph
                      1991 4-Door (Dad's Car): Pro-M EFI, 306ci, Forged Pistons, Ford Racing Aluminum Heads, COMP XE264HR cam, Cobra 1.7 Rockers, Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 Intake, 30lb. Injectors, Custom 65mm TB/EGR Spacer, Pro-M 75mm MAF, BBK Ceramic Shorties, Custom Summit H-pipe, Walker Mufflers, Jegs Built AOD, Roadrunner 3000 Stall Converter, Ford Racing 4.10 Gear - Best 1/8th mile time: 9.76@72.03

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A stall converter like that plays nice with a Mustang cam since it helps get things near the power hand when launching.

                        I’ve found the Mustang cam to be reasonable when being driven normally, but as everyone says the power is above 2500. It was not awesome to launch from a stand with the factory converter as it was a dog until it got up there, but after swapping to a 2500 unit, things are much better.


                        My Cars:
                        -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
                        -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
                        -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (325K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
                        -1997 Grand Marquis LS (240K Miles) - The Daily Workhorse & March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Casting number is up next to where the starter lives

                          I'd go roller just because of modern oils. Less chance of the cam eating itself from oil problems or junky lifters. The stock hardware should be easy enough to get, and cast iron drills and taps fairly easily. If you can rig up a shop vac to pull the chips away as you drill that wouldn't be a bad idea, and make sure you change the oil to get rid of any remaining crap that doesn't get cleaned up.

                          I'm fairly happy with the Comp cam in my sig.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I just saw FAST EZ-EFI and scrolled past everything else to give this warning...DON’T DO IT! The system is garbage, the processor s-l-o-w, among a host of other problems. I’ll probably use mine for target practice after I switch back to the stock multi-point type injection...I’m either tuning with a Quarter-horse or an Anderson PMS. I have both in stock so, who knows.
                            '85 CV coupe- 351W, T5-Z, FAST Ez-Efi, shorty headers, 2.5" duals with knock off flowmasters, 2.5" Impala tails, seriously worked GT-40 irons, Comp 265DEH cam, 1.7rr's, Mallory HyFire 6A, Taylor ThunderVolt 50 10.4mm wires, 75mm t/b, 3G alt swap, 140mph PI speedo, PI rear sway bar, '00 PI booster/MC, 95-97 front spindles, '99 front hub bearings/brakes, '92-'94 front upper control arms/ball-joints, 3.73's with rebuilt traction-lok, '09 PI rear disc swap, '96 Mustang GT wheels with 235/55R17's.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I was assuming you had a stock converter, like Kodachrome said, it shouldnt be too bad in that case. I'd personally still shoot for something with low end grunt...when it shifts to third and youre trying to accelerate moderately at 1500rpm its nice to have some torque. I like the comp cams series... like an XE258 or XE264
                              -Phil

                              sigpic

                              +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Holley Sniper EFI, RPM Intake+ Hyperspark dizzy, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

                              +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

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