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Thread: CFI random stall on decel/quick stop when hot

  1. #21
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    I honestly think it has to do with the TPS- like the injectors aren't firing until that extra bit of voltage. My car wouldn't even cough like a carb'd car would. I did an experiment once when I was pissed at it- I was all like, "Piece of shit.. You're either going to start or you're going to kill the starter in the process." I felt sorry for it after 20 or 30 seconds of just cranking and toe'd in the throttle. It immediately lit off at that point. I don't think I ever checked timing on that rig. Was my first old car aside from the Fury, I was still learning which direction to tighten things and how to round off nuts at that point.

    THat is goofy, and I think V6 CFI stuff had it since '84. Strange that V8's did not.
    Yeah, it feels like I could crank and crank when cold, touching the throttle is like suddenly the engine is getting spark again. Though easier with a bit of throttle, my car does often start with just a turn of the key when hot, or cooled down a bit.
    I like to joke to my friends about the CFI starting procedures and (sometimes) crappy idle. "Just like a fuel-injected engine should be!" Just the best when it fires up and rpm rises quite a bit, I let off the throttle, it immediately wants to die and I stab the throttle again, the engine bogs like all hell and shakes the everliving shit to stay running again.

    One day the CFI will go away... I think I've played it's games long enough.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  2. #22
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I remember when I first saw my '88. Opened the hood and saw all the SEFI goodness. All I had to do was twist the key no matter what weather and it just ran. I was in love. Now that I've had it good for so many years, I find myself looking back at CFI fondly. I think what I liked best is the old school look.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  3. #23
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    a dead spot in the TPS can make it not start, easy enough to check with a voltmeter.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  4. #24

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    I have replaced the TFI connector with a Dorman one from Rockauto. So far no stalling but I only drove two times since the repair. Looks like it was actually the connector that was causing the random stall. It also had sputtered and stalled before the repair when I had slammed the hood shut. That sounded like a bad electric connection to me. So replacing the brittle, corroded connector was the first thing to do. The wires coming from said connector (especially the yellow SPOUT one) were heavily bended in multiple places right at the connector which could very likely have been broken inside the insulating.

    BUT it is still stalling when coasting and shifting into neutral with AC on. Turn off the AC and it doesn“t kill the engine when shifting into neutral.......I definitely need to check the throttle kicker and vacuum to the device with running engine on/off AC. Maybe that curb idle is set too low or the kicker not working.

  5. #25
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbillycat View Post
    BUT it is still stalling when coasting and shifting into neutral with AC on. Turn off the AC and it doesn“t kill the engine when shifting into neutral.......I definitely need to check the throttle kicker and vacuum to the device with running engine on/off AC. Maybe that curb idle is set too low or the kicker not working.
    Sounds like your idle might be set a little too low. Hot engine and in gear, the idle should be about 600-650 rpm IIRC.
    Why it stalls when shifting to neutral is completely beyond me...
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  6. #26
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Yah when it coasts that throttle plunger thing should be getting vacuum and thus holding the throttle. Mine was like that, anyway. Have you verified correct EGR operation? CFI is pretty particular about that.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  7. #27

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    EGR valve is clean, holds vacuum when applied. PVS switch works as should, too.
    How to verify proper operation other then that?

  8. #28
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbillycat View Post
    How to verify proper operation other then that?
    If starting and (mostly) running doesn't improve with the EGR valve vacuum line off and plugged, you're fine.
    If the car runs better and smoother with the EGR off, leave it so and move onto other problems if still present. EGR is nice to have but it can cause a multitude of random issues when not working correctly.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  9. #29

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    Makes no difference so I conclude EGR is fine. We“ll see if the stalling was cured by the new connector by time to come. Gotta check curb idle rpms with my meter - probably needs a tad of tweaking up.

  10. #30
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Only thing I'd do is make sure the vacuum line going to it is routed right- so it opens when commanded to. My car was a F'd up- the EGR wasn't hooked up right, hence the initial ridiculously high idle to compensate.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  11. #31
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    if you can figure out which side of that solenoid is constant hot, grounding the other side of it manually will let you test the high idle system. That would prove the vac source, the vac lines, and the kicker all in one go.

    the EGR valves can get jammed open in these. usually makes it idle bad or not at all, but maybe worth a look. They get carbon packed around the pintle and it doesn't seal correctly.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #32

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    EGR valve had been cleaned. No deposit on the pintle and leak free seating. High idle is not controlled via an IAC solenoid on my 84 but vacuum kicker. EGR is however solenoid controlled.

  13. #33
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    its a vacuum kicker, but the vacuum is applied through a solenoid. When the solenoid activates, the kicker extends.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  14. #34

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    Ah, now I understand.
    The stall is gone now with the new TFI connector.

  15. #35
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Loose connections/corroded connectors are the bane of old cars.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
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    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
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  16. #36

    Default Stalling solved - caused by radio turned on - bluetooth module in suspicion!

    Hi, I think I solved the mysterious random stalling on decel or hard stop.
    It must be caused by the radio, or better said very likely the bluetooth module I piggybacked onto the stock tape radio to have selected music while keeping the 80s looks.

    I confirmed that as soon as I turn on the radio the car behaves with the stalling. Without radio there is none.

    Interesting find was that during the time I drove without the dome lights fuse (due to my interior working of refurbishing things and not wanting to drain the battery like I had in the past) I had no radio signal. Radio did turn on but there was only hiss on all channels. Plug back in that 20Amps fuse for dome lights and you have radio signal. Is that normal? Some sort of auxiliary antenna amplifier I guess.

    Anyway, while on the TFI info hunt I stumbled across the necesarity of shileding certain wires in the harness to the TFI to prevent, I think it was radio pickup. That“s what made me think abuot my issue and voilį.....TFI acts up with radio turned on. My shileding in the harness is still there. However I did not shiled the few inches of wire from the new connector. Should I?

  17. #37
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Worth a shot. The real thing to check now that it's electrical noise causing the issue, is the capacitor on the coil. If it's original, it is most likely not doing anything any more.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  18. #38

    Default Radio NOT culprit for stall - curb idle set too low.

    Well, I“m kinda ashamed for not checking the most obvious first: curb idle!
    Hence I must correct my radio/bluetooth cuplrit thing. This had nothing to do with the stall. I verified it this weekend on a 400 mile trip on our autobahn. BTW, cruise set to 70mph I averaged 22mpg with AC off and 18.8mpg with AC on. Pretty nice isn“t it? And that was E10 gasoline.

    Anyway, the stalling actually was caused by curb idle set too low by PO. The throttle kicker (VOTM) was not engaging the throttle lever when actuated. Too much load (AC, lights and radio all on) caused it to stall on sudden stops.

  19. #39
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    I think you mentioned the curb idle quite a while back. Did you pull too many hairs before realising this?
    The correct curb idle is kinda on the high side, so you might've not realised that you idle was set "too low".

    I'm quite envious of your mileage, but atleast I can comfort myself on my CFI being borked. I can't get over 16mpg even if I drafted behind a damn semi truck. Though it won't get any better before I get the carb on top or the CFI magically gets fixed.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  20. #40

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    Hi Arquemann,
    yeah, I pulled a lotta hairs. I had read too much about the CFI EECIV issues that I totally overlooked the idle.

    And yes, I“m a bit proud to get this good mileage. 16 mpg I get around town.

    And I still run all stock sensors. HEGO, MAP, TPS, EGR, all original from 1984. At least they“re Motorcraft and look like from factory due to dirt and dust.

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