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Thread: Hard to Start 2000 MGM Only When Cold

  1. #21
    Goal was 'giving back', done by 2020.
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    You're the electronics expert, so your guess would be better than mine. I have no idea what thermistors are made of or how they are made, but it seems they are destined to fail in a certain direction. Dunno if that is deliberate or just the nature of the beast.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

  2. #22
    Goal was 'giving back', done by 2020.
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    I'm having unbelievable bad luck with this issue. Rather than try another local Ford sensor, I went with an aftermarket sensor from the U.K., and it measured defective too. Here are photos showing the readings from two different meters:

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    That one and at least two of the Ford ones had relatively recent dates, so degradation over time seems to be ruled out. Maybe I'll have better luck with a part from China.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

  3. #23
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    I see... you need to measure pin to pin, not pin to case. Pin to case is only for the single wire sensors.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  4. #24
    Goal was 'giving back', done by 2020.
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    Apparently not. Most, if not all, of the prior sensor readings were done pin to pin, and I started doing pin to case at some point with the same result. Doing pin to case was easier for photographing, and I just confirmed that the result is the same for pin to pin. The only thing I can think of at this point besides some kind of widespread manufacturing defect is having some kind of magical force field around me that causes coolant sensors (but not my air filter box sensor) to read bad.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

  5. #25
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Wait... you have the meter on 200K ohm setting. This means that is reading 19K to 23K (depending on meter). I know a LOT of meters that don't move the decimal point properly on this one setting. It's very confusing. And if it is the case that it's over 20K (OL or -1 on 20K setting), this is close enough. Remember... these sensors are not very accurate. They can vary +/- 15% and be perfectly serviceable.

    Now, this range is very broad on closed loop settings. If you boil some water and measure it after a brief soak (leave the electrical out of the water as much as you can for ease of use), it should be less than 3 ohms. You need to account for the wire resistance of the meter at this point as well and subtract that from your reading. If it's not around 3K ohms and remains in the 20K ohm area, you indeed have a bad sensor.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  6. #26
    Goal was 'giving back', done by 2020.
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    I had confirmed some of the readings at a lower setting, and the first defective sensor was confirmed with my scanner reading the PCM, so I doubt it's a decimal point issue. Also, I tried that latest sensor in the fridge and freezer and did get higher resistances, but even in the freezer it was only about 40kohm, which shows on the chart as being well over 10 degrees C. The U.K. seller provided a refund without requiring me to send the sensor back, so I will take the plastic off and try it in boiling water for the helluvit. I've ordered one from China, and if that one doesn't work out, I guess I'll try a U-pull yard.

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box 'tuba', headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, KYB Gas-A-Just shocks, aluminum driveshaft, ARA3 PCM

  7. #27
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Bah. Yeah. That's amazingly bad luck with parts. If the china one doesn't ring out with the meter, I'd be tempted to just try one you have on hand and see if it works.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

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