PotM GrandMarq.NET - Panther Headquarters Forum Index PotM
GMN Chat Room GMN's STORE!! GMN's Gallery Please!!
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 44

Thread: '87 Colony Park, stutters, bucks, and stalls. Help Pls!

  1. #21
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    It would be typical for the engine to run worse when this in unplugged so I suggest trying that.

    IIRC it could be a vacuum leak, bad harness or bad sensor.

    On another concern, the car does not pop back into the intake?
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  2. #22
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    23,208

    Default

    Yeah... if the hose to the MAP sensor is crap, replace it. That could be the entire issue. If disconnecting the MAP does nothing or it runs better, the MAP sensor is toast.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  3. #23
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    sensor, yes. firewall, above and behind the passenger side valve cover usually.

    I have had one go bad, and the engine ran extremely rich. Oddly it ran normally when unplugged. My best guess is the diaphragm inside broke and for whatever reason the position stuff sits in with vacuum and working is approximately the same position it sits in with no vacuum and broken.
    Okay, will check that out. I thought mechanic changed the MAP. But that's the downside of doing some with mechanic, some by yourself. You don't always know for sure.

    Thank you for the advice!
    1987 MGM Wagon

  4. #24
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    One final thought on fuel pressure though, the issue is, even at WOT its still around 30. Shouldn't it be close to 40?
    1987 MGM Wagon

  5. #25
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    After simple check of Map,

    Does it backfire through the intake?

    Check the throttle base setting.
    Check firing order is NOT HO.
    Make sure ECM is NOT HO.
    Are you 100% sure the engine is not an HO? Could it have been changed in the past?
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  6. #26
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    No, I have no idea if it's HO or not. Model is 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis Colony Park LS. The WINis 2MEBM79FXHX656764. Most of this is obvious, but not sure what you want to see to know if it's HO. Here's what the specs say on a VIN check:

    Displacement(CI): 302
    Other Engine Info: Cental Fuel Injection
    Displacment (L): 5.0
    Engine Power (kW): 111.8550
    Engine Configuration: V-Shaped
    Engine Number of Cylinders: 8
    Engine Brake (hp) From: 150
    Displacement (CC): 4948.893328
    Engine Brake (hp) To: 160
    NCSA Model: Marquis/Monterey (car version; for van version 2004 on see code 444)/Grand Marquis
    1987 MGM Wagon

  7. #27
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    Ho (high Output) Motors, available in mustangs and Lincoln mark VII are very similar same size engines that are sometimes swapped into panthers. They have different internals and heads. perhaps most significantly here the camshaft requires a different firing order. And a different engine program in the ecm. So there are two 5.0 liter ford motors in the same years with two different firing orders and ECMs. I have seen people use the wrong order when installing new wires. Just something to check. If it is the original engine it requires the Non-HO firing order.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  8. #28
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    41,435

    Default

    If the fuel pressure jumps from 30 to 40 when the vac line is removed, the reg is fine. At WOT it may not actually show an increase at peak fuel demand, depends on how healthy the rest of the system is. Either way that won't be why it idles badly.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  9. #29
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    You know, now that you mention it, the mechanic said he changed the firing order. He may have mistakenly changed it to HO, assuming it was same as foxbody 5.0 mustang. So today I'm going to check the following:
    1) MAP and MAP line - disconnect and see if if run different.
    2) Review firing order through dizzy into cylinder, make sure it's set for NOT HO

    Hey, GrandMarq gang, thanks again for all the info on my beast! This is exactly why I buy project cars, to try new stuff (to me) and learn!
    1987 MGM Wagon

  10. #30
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    I don’t know what u mean by pop back in the intake manifold. Do u mean are both end connected? Sorry for dumb question
    1987 MGM Wagon

  11. #31
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    I disconnected MAP hose and it died. MAP was definitely replaced also. Doesnít mean it isnít failing, just stating it as a fact after inspection.
    1987 MGM Wagon

  12. #32
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    The opposite of a backfire. Small engine explosions into the intake.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  13. #33
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    When installing wires make sure they particular ones are crossed as shown if you look very closely at diagrams.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  14. #34
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lewisville, TX
    Posts
    23,208

    Default

    Looks like the MAP sensor is fine. It did what it should have done. We can probably rule it out as an issue.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  15. #35
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    41,435

    Default

    yeah if it didn't magically start running like normal, the MAP isn't dead. Normally when those are unplugged the fuel goes super rich and usually it dies, or at least runs completely horrible.
    They rarely fail in some sort of not-dead manner. There is a way to check it with a tachometer to verify frequency output is within spec but if its already been replaced and didn't change how it runs, I'll vote "not it".

    personally I'm not much for throwing parts at a problem without diagnostics, but it sounds like thats what has happened here. At this point its hard to know if the original problem remains or if there are new problems introduced.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  16. #36
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    I replaced the vacuum tube into the MAP, to no difference. but then I got out the multimeter to check wiring to the MAP. It's got 7 volts going to it, when I believe it should have 5. The rating of ground to signal is supposed to be 1.4 to 1.8....and it's 2.05. Could bad wiring be the source of the issue? My fuel injection was rewired by the shop because mice ate the wires through them. When they replaced that, is it possible that jacked up my wiring to the point it did this? I have a new motorcraft MAP coming in tomorrow, in hopes the Duralast MAP they put in is just crap....but not convinced it will solve anything.
    1987 MGM Wagon

  17. #37
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    41,435

    Default

    what were you using for a ground connection?

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  18. #38
    I post a lot...
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Yonkers NY
    Posts
    4,674

    Default

    The map test you did indicated probably good as sly and Gadget mentioned.

    Did you check the fire order?

    The injector wiring could also be an issue but first check the fire order.

    BTW could you send a pic or two of the engine?

    Also does it pop back through the intake?
    Last edited by jaywish; 07-10-2022 at 10:26 PM.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  19. #39
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Yes, I checked firing order is SO 5.0. I tried both(HO and SO) to be sure even, but SO works.

    See pics, as you requested.

    Lastly, how would I check to see if itís firing back thru the manifold?
    Last edited by jeff97062; 07-11-2022 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Add pics

  20. #40
    Jeff97062
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Tualatin, OR
    Posts
    21

    Default

    having trouble posting image...
    Last edited by jeff97062; 07-11-2022 at 01:39 PM. Reason: unnecessary
    1987 MGM Wagon

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
GMN Approved Links!


www.rockauto.com www.adtr.net