need pros and cons

[88Vic]

Out of a heavy wagon? Good luck, gonna need a lot of power for that, I'd suggest a 351-based engine, gonna need the torque.

[P72Ford]

FE= fucking expensive

I own one. There is undoubtedly power potential, but in stock form they are pretty lame; albeit the exhaust note is very distinct in my opinion. Mine has exaust manifolds, but an aftermarket intake and Holley 4bbl.

Biggest issue I have with the one that I own, and this partially has to do with the vehicle it is in... is that I get 8-9 MPG with the Lord smiling upon it. It is a thirsty bish.

Parts are very expensive, especially when you start to talk about aftermarket cylinder heads, valvetrain, intakes, headers, etc.

I like mine nonetheless, and think a wagon equipped with a tri-power 390 would be pretty neat. But I think there are other cheaper, and more practical choices you can make. That decision is yours. Either way, would like to see pictures and updates of your progress.

[sly]

+1 351w or cleavor built up real good might get into low 14s high 13s... with boost. Dart block and forged internals and more boost and something like my dream 408w twin turbo monster would probably get into the 12s solid and possibly high 11s with drag radials. Now if your wagon is a stripper model with all manual seats and crank windows... you'll have a lot less electric motor weight to haul around. Reducing weight in the beast will go a long way towards making it faster as well, though there is a limit to what can be removed from a long roof to make it lighter.

FYI: I haven't run the numbers and all this is guesstimate on my part... so take it for what you paid for it.

[knucklehead0202]

+1 351w or cleavor built up real good might get into low 14s high 13s... with boost. Dart block and forged internals and more boost and something like my dream 408w twin turbo monster would probably get into the 12s solid and possibly high 11s with drag radials. Now if your wagon is a stripper model with all manual seats and crank windows... you'll have a lot less electric motor weight to haul around. Reducing weight in the beast will go a long way towards making it faster as well, though there is a limit to what can be removed from a long roof to make it lighter.

FYI: I haven't run the numbers and all this is guesstimate on my part... so take it for what you paid for it.

Jesus sly, if I had a TT 408 and only got 12's out of it I'd throw a rope over the rafters. That combo would get a bus into the 14's.

I like Thain's idea about the 351 Cleveland though. They're awesome engines, although the same things can be done with windsors these days, I love a good Cleveland motor. The blocks are very tough too. I say build a stroker NA Cleveland, maybe with a shot of nitrous on it.

[JeffBoudah]

1000 hp and 12's???? What do you think this is, a Supra forum? lol

[sly]

well my tt would be built for DD duty... so low boost. No more than maybe 12psi. Probably in the 600hp range.

Like I said... I haven't run the numbers, so I'm not sure what the combo would really make.

[knucklehead0202]

1000 hp and 12's???? What do you think this is, a Supra forum? lol

Hahahahahahah!!! Seriously though, even low boost through a 408 would be some serious shit. My brother is building a 331, or 328 or whatever, for his coupe with the idea of a medium-sized single turbo and mid-600hp is the current aim, although his builder is trying to get him to go with twins. All depends on your setup, turbo size, etc. I personally plan to run a mild 347 with a small centrifugal. I'd be perfectly happy with 400hp give or take. 12's are my ultimate goal, and I don't care if they're 12.9's, I want a mild driver. Going full-retard on it though, why not a big-block or Cleveland?

[sly]

my idea is two small turbos (no need for anti-lag as there wouldn't be any lag to speak of). I don't like lag. Essencially I've had this idea since before the ecoboost engines came out and those engines just confirmed what I was thinking... that small turbos can really help get more vroom out and if you drive nice, get more mpg as well with a nice early onset torque curve.

[gadget73]

Clevors are also an interesting option. You should be able to use stock engine brackets, which means no f'kn V-belt nonsense, but you'd get the heads. FInding a gen-u-whine Cleveland engine is not exactly the easiest thing these days. You can however get new Cleveland-type head castings, and the intakes required for a Clevor without a lot of horsepucky. Then again, modern Windsor head castings are not crap either, so there is that route. The old Clevor setup was probably a bigger deal when nobody made a Windsor head that was worth bothering with. It does make a nice compromise too, you get the better airflow of the Cleveland heads, but the better oiling of the Windsor block. The Clevelands had issues with oiling once the cam bearings got tired. I forget what it was exactly, but something about the way the oil flow routed caused the cam to get weak oil flow, and it would just eat the cam bearings up after a while.

[grandwagon]

OK so it sounds like you all are saying stay with the small block, i got that but i dont get why you all are saying the et is going to be that hard to hit? there are a few big body long roofs at the local strip with small blocks and they are all in 12s and faster. i talked to one guy and he has less than $3000 in the hole car and he runs 12.80s all night long with out NOS in a 71 chevelle wagon!!!

[sly]

he's probably running an LS based engine too. Those are generally cheaper than SBFs for making that much power. You can probably ask him what he's done with it and add about $1000 to a SBF build. If you want fuel injection, add another 1-2 grand.

[gadget73]

LS6 swapped box wagon would be pretty sexy, gotta admit. Probably easier to get hold of one than a Coyote engine too. But yeah, the LS series engines are pretty bad ass when you get to it. Power to displacement and power per dollar is pretty favorable compared to a lot of other things.

[knucklehead0202]

LS motors are just small-block-fords with reversed valves and stronger blocks. Keep it real please.

[sly]

LS motors are just small-block-fords with reversed valves and stronger blocks. Keep it real please.

and cheaper because millions of them. This is keeping it real, because it's a real option and has been done in the past, though I don't think on this forum though.

[grandwagon]

any thoughts on a 1979 351 M ? i can get it for about a $175!!!!