wagon suspension help needed

[87gtVIC]

He also has all new poly bushings everywhere!

This is how my car looks with stock front springs and wagon cargo coils in the rear:

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...091f0293ca.jpg

To me it looks almost identical to Tom's ride height (maybe just a smidge higher in the rear), so I am not even sure if I should mess with anything.

Hey CaptainKRM where are the pics of that sexy wagon?

[GM_Guy]

Originally Posted by 85crownHPP

Id just put sedan variable rates in the rear to slightly lower a waggin

Going from Sedan variable rates to Wagon variable rates in my sedan raised the back end exactly two (2") inches.

Going the other way around (sedans in a wagon) will drop it more than 2 inches due to the extra wagon weight. How much, is anybodys guess. If the spring catalog is to be believed, its 70lbs more for the wagon).

Alex.

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by 87gtVIC

Hey CaptainKRM where are the pics of that sexy wagon?

its not real sexy right now. too cold and salty here this should give you an idea as to how low the car sits - empty mind you

[87gtVIC]

wow that is pretty low!

[Freshmeat]

Those pictures don't do much for me. Can you get a frontal quarter shot?

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by Freshmeat

Those pictures don't do much for me. Can you get a frontal quarter shot?

yeah when blizzard 2010 passes and i can dig it out, sure

[Freshmeat]

No! Now!!
We just had our second snow this winter. I've lived in Louisiana for 26 years and have never seen two snows in one winter.

[CaptainKRM]

so i got my new 250 rated rear springs from speedway today. they're still alot shorter than the stockers, so i'm concerned still. but i'll let you know how they work out.

[pvillese]

Going from Sedan variable rates to Wagon variable rates in my sedan raised the back end exactly two (2") inches.

Alex.[/QUOTE]

How does it ride with the wagon variable rate springs? I'm trying to decide what to do with my car(85 sedan). I am going to tow our camper with my GM and the weight I added to drive around in the winter is causing my rear end to really drag so there is no way the stock springs I have now would handle the car fully loaded and the camper too. I'm sure my stock springs are worn being 25 years old and 78k miles. My one thought is to add helper air bags that I manually inflate, which is what I had on my RRC and I really like being able to control the ride height, but seeing as my springs are probably pretty worn I should probably replace the springs too. My other thought, which I'm not a huge fan of due to the added height but has the lower cost, would be wagon variable rate springs. I'm also open to other suggestions but the cheaper the solution the better.

[Piece-it pete]

How does it ride with the wagon variable rate springs? I'm trying to decide what to do with my car(85 sedan). I am going to tow our camper with my GM and the weight I added to drive around in the winter is causing my rear end to really drag so there is no way the stock springs I have now would handle the car fully loaded and the camper too. I'm sure my stock springs are worn being 25 years old and 78k miles. My one thought is to add helper air bags that I manually inflate, which is what I had on my RRC and I really like being able to control the ride height, but seeing as my springs are probably pretty worn I should probably replace the springs too. My other thought, which I'm not a huge fan of due to the added height but has the lower cost, would be wagon variable rate springs. I'm also open to other suggestions but the cheaper the solution the better.[/QUOTE]

I really liked my Moog cargo coils, in my old 87 GM, for that car (vs a wagon etc). If you put say 25 50# bags of readymix in your trunk it'll still sag , but it generally rode a 'correct' height and took a great deal of beating, for very little green (65-70 bucks).

I have them in my 97 GM too. I'm a fan.

Pete

[pvillese]

Originally Posted by Piece-it pete

I really liked my Moog cargo coils, in my old 87 GM, for that car (vs a wagon etc). If you put say 25 50# bags of readymix in your trunk it'll still sag , but it generally rode a 'correct' height and took a great deal of beating, for very little green (65-70 bucks).

I have them in my 97 GM too. I'm a fan.

Pete

Are you referring to the standard cargo springs? I wasn't sure they would be enough since so many people talk about putting the wagon ones on. Sounds like the standard cargo springs would at least cut it for now then and if I'm not thrilled with the ride height I can just add airbags later.

[Piece-it pete]

Yes, the ones for my car. I don't know about the others, they're the only ones I've used, but I often treat my car like a truck. Others will chime in I'm sure, I think the wagon ones cost the same and I'd like to hear more about them for my (soon to have) 89 Town Car.

They do make the ride a little stiffer but I prefer it.

Did you know that, with the back seat bottom cushion out, (shape of item depending) Panthers hold more than a Ranger?

Pete

[pvillese]

Originally Posted by Piece-it pete

Yes, the ones for my car. I don't know about the others, they're the only ones I've used, but I often treat my car like a truck. Others will chime in I'm sure, I think the wagon ones cost the same and I'd like to hear more about them for my (soon to have) 89 Town Car.

They do make the ride a little stiffer but I prefer it.

Did you know that, with the back seat bottom cushion out, (shape of item depending) Panthers hold more than a Ranger?

Pete

Thanks, I'm going to seriously consider the sedan variable rates then. Now I'm curious how hard it is to pull the bottom cushion as I commonly treat my cars as trucks but normally need the back seat for my two kids. I think my biggest feat was hauling our dining room table that seats up to 15 or so people in my Saturn coupe, excluding most of the chairs of course.

I'd actually like it to be a bit stiffer. I just would rather not gain any/much ride height.

[Blaze86Vic]

Originally Posted by CaptainKRM

so i got my new 250 rated rear springs from speedway today. they're still alot shorter than the stockers, so i'm concerned still. but i'll let you know how they work out.

After the springs settle in, the 925/225 setup is almost level on a 4 door sedan (my car). Given that you have an extra 250-350 lbs on the rear axles, you will probably need a slightly higher spring rate.

The rear of my car weights just over 1700lbs (without a drive measured on 4 point scales), so subtract 300lbs for the rear axle weight (as this is un-sprung weight) and you are looking at about 1400lbs being carried by the rear springs on my car. With a combined spring rate of 450lbs/in, the springs should be compressed a little over 3" when installed. With the extra weight of the wagon being all on the rear, and all carried by the springs, the extra 300lbs is going to push the rear down almost 1" more. To get the same ride height you would need a combined rate of 550lbs/in, which divided over two springs is 275lbs/in. If you want a bit of rake, then 300lbs/in would be needed, and would probably be better anyways so it's not dragging as when yo start loading the rear with stuff (which is why wagons come with progressive rate springs factory).

[GM_Guy]

Originally Posted by pvillese

How does it ride with the wagon variable rate springs? I'm trying to decide what to do with my car(85 sedan).

It rides great with the wagon springs. I've mentioned in another thread, it could stand to be even stiffer for my tastes.

My one thought is to add helper air bags that I manually inflate, which is what I had on my RRC and I really like being able to control the ride height, but seeing as my springs are probably pretty worn I should probably replace the springs too. My other thought, which I'm not a huge fan of due to the added height but has the lower cost, would be wagon variable rate springs. I'm also open to other suggestions but the cheaper the solution the better.

If your hauling weight around regularly, go for the wagon coils out back and get a set of heavy duty sedan coils for the front (they are probably well worn to at this point). Try it with the trailer on a shakedown run and get bags if necessary (no idea how heavy your camper is, but these cars towed campers regularily back in their day).

Alex.

[CaptainKRM]

update; put the 250s on the wagon. its better than the 175s, by far. unloaded with the 925s in front, its even. handling and ride is improved. i''d recommend for wagon owners who want speedway springs no lower than a 250 in the back.

[ÆJackacks]

so it's level when it's empty but does it sag at all when the kids are in the back? I think i might go with 275-300s in the rear for my wagon like Johnnie said.

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by ÆJackacks

so it's level when it's empty but does it sag at all when the kids are in the back? I think i might go with 275-300s in the rear for my wagon like Johnnie said.

i'd run 275s if i had another shot at it. with a full load it will drop about a half inch or more on the 250s. the speedway springs sit shorter than stock by design so i tossed in a circular spacer from auto zone on each one to prevent them from collapsing too much.

[Piece-it pete]

Originally Posted by pvillese

Thanks, I'm going to seriously consider the sedan variable rates then. Now I'm curious how hard it is to pull the bottom cushion as I commonly treat my cars as trucks but normally need the back seat for my two kids. I think my biggest feat was hauling our dining room table that seats up to 15 or so people in my Saturn coupe, excluding most of the chairs of course.

I'd actually like it to be a bit stiffer. I just would rather not gain any/much ride height.

Sorry PV, missed it. It is really easy to pull the back seat. You need to push the front edge of the seat back a few inches - there are 2 clips located in the center of each seating position that you need to clear, and the seat front will lift out - wa'la!

Once you get it out you'll understand perfectly, nothing to be 'fraid of, it's great. I used to be able to push hard enough by hand (you have to push pretty hard) but now use knee power

Pete