EFI wows, about to scrap it!

[adam.w.ackerman]

Tomato/tomato at this point; about the same money either way.


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[DezertRunner]

Always start with the cheapest and simplest parts and work your way up. Before going too crazy, definitely change the ect sensor too. My first '90 had a wandering idle that I spent months chasing and changing parts/fixing vacuum leaks, only to be quelled by changing a goddamned $8 part. Live and learn.

I hear ya, isn't that the way it always is, lol. That is another sensor that I have not replaced or addressed yet, along with O2 and temp.

This is one of the same reasons I am seriously considering a carb though, hate to be broke down over a frivolous cheap part of some sort. In my mind, technology is great for efficiency, not so great in terms of durability or age'ing as the more integrated it is, the more that can go wrong or needs replaced.

[DezertRunner]

Tomato/tomato at this point; about the same money either way.


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I will just get the duralast for right now since it does sound like the source, and worst case I will either know if it is the reason or not.

In the case of not and back to square one, what should I look at next? (Trying to be optimistic here though, lol)

[DerekTheGreat]

Carbs are fine when the car came equipped with one. Maybe I'm one of a select few that would turn away from a car that was once EFI but now crappy carb. Why go backwards? I feel the same way when someone builds a car and then puts a damn trans in it without overdrive... If it's for the track, sure, I get it. But this isn't 1977, we've got tons of options... Anyway, my '69 Plymouth was fine and dandy, could sit in the engine bay to work on it and often had to. But, it always worked until it started sitting for longer than 1 month, then carb issues. Air bleeds get plugged up, idle circuit, float bowl too. All these tiny little parts. Not so with EFI, why it just farking works. I'd own another carb'd car but it would of had to come from the factory that way. I like bumping the key and being able to walk away regardless what the thermometer says or if the engine is heatsoaked or what not. Plus they typically don't stink or plug cats.

[adam.w.ackerman]

I will just get the duralast for right now since it does sound like the source, and worst case I will either know if it is the reason or not.

In the case of not and back to square one, what should I look at next? (Trying to be optimistic here though, lol)

Ecm


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[86VickyLX]

Gadget I appreciate your insight, you are one of the veterans around these parts. I have no problem soldering new caps in an ecu if that is what is needed. With such a low mileage un-molested car, I have to ask...

What would you do? This is not my daily driver, Carb this sob?

I sure as hell wouldn't carb the engine. That is a waste of time, and most carb jobs on efi are hack jobs and look horrible. Fix it. Sounds like it has something to do with base timing. Check and verify base timing 10 btdc with SPOUT disconnected. Also, check timing chain play by manually turning crank and observing the distributor rotor. If you turn the crank and the distributor doesn't turn then you have play in the chain.

[86VickyLX]

At idle, the idle speed is jointly controlled between the IAC and ignition timing. Check your tps voltage with key on. It should be anywhere between .850-1.1v. If it's any higher, the IAC will not come into play as much. If it's lower, the idle will be erratic and hunt.

[DezertRunner]

Carbs are fine when the car came equipped with one. Maybe I'm one of a select few that would turn away from a car that was once EFI but now crappy carb. Why go backwards? I feel the same way when someone builds a car and then puts a damn trans in it without overdrive... If it's for the track, sure, I get it. But this isn't 1977, we've got tons of options... Anyway, my '69 Plymouth was fine and dandy, could sit in the engine bay to work on it and often had to. But, it always worked until it started sitting for longer than 1 month, then carb issues. Air bleeds get plugged up, idle circuit, float bowl too. All these tiny little parts. Not so with EFI, why it just farking works. I'd own another carb'd car but it would of had to come from the factory that way. I like bumping the key and being able to walk away regardless what the thermometer says or if the engine is heatsoaked or what not. Plus they typically don't stink or plug cats.

Some things I am used to in Carb's right off the bat from over the years. Heat soak, a platonic spacer works wonders for isolating heat transfer from intake to carb, especially when aluminum. Also, thermo wrapping the fuel line in the engine bay and routing so it does not touch the block or heat has always 100% fixed fuel boiling in the carb even on 100+ days for me. Along with additives or better yet always using non ethonal fuel helps with clogged or gummy internals. Even then, you can R&I a carb and rebuild it in under an hour with minimal tools.

I have done a early 90s f150 and converted to carb along with other performance parts and it never ran better, regret ever selling that. Another one over the years I switched was a 85 ford ranger v6, that had a lovely computer controlled carb. Ripped all that out and went 100% carb and durasparked it, ran like a whole new motor afterwards.

I would not shy away from something converted that almost looks OEM that was done right. Hacked is another story, I know that is what the majority looks like. Besides I am not worried about resale, I am keeping the LTD in the fleet, I like it.

[DezertRunner]

Alright gentlemen, I have called and looked around as far as local and "in-stock" go's, and the pick'ens are thin these days as to be expected. I could wait and order a different one, but I would like to be able to diagnose it this weekend.

option 1) NAPA remand unit (I know the generic pic shows vac advance, but it is TFI)

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NRD482895

option 2) O'Rilly china Spectra

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/s...?q=distributor

option 3) AutoZone china Duralast

http://www.autozone.com/external-eng...2_0_4618_13030

I will also be scanning to check codes, yea I know probably should have already done that....

[Kodachrome Wolf]

Alright gentlemen, I have called and looked around as far as local and "in-stock" go's, and the pick'ens are thin these days as to be expected. I could wait and order a different one, but I would like to be able to diagnose it this weekend.

option 1) NAPA remand unit (I know the generic pic shows vac advance, but it is TFI)

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NRD482895

option 2) O'Rilly china Spectra

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/s...?q=distributor

option 3) AutoZone china Duralast

http://www.autozone.com/external-eng...2_0_4618_13030

I will also be scanning to check codes, yea I know probably should have already done that....

I'm using that Spectra one from O'Reilly. I will mention that the first one I got was a China manufactured one that crapped it's pickup minutes after initial startup. I warranty swapped it for another (lifetime warranty on it) and that one was a Taiwanese manufactured one. For whatever reason, the Taiwanese one was considerably better put together in terms of the quality of the components.

I moved my Motorcraft TFI module over to it and kept the TFI that came on it as a spare. One thing I did notice about these units is many of them really don't have a lot of thermal compound on them for the TFI, which could cause early TFI burn out. I'd strongly suggest removing the TFI and adding thermal compound if necessary.

I've entrusted my new distributor to a few long trips so far without issue. Typically you won't wind up with a bum part to start with, but unfortunately in volume manufacturing, a bad component will get through quality control once in a while and into the market.


Like I mentioned back on the first page of this thread, my car did run like garbage with a bad pickup. Idle was everywhere, driving it was tricky because it would bog, jerk, and sputter. Pull the SPOUT out, was driveable enough. It was not tossing any codes that would point to PIP, but that's where I finally arrived at.

[DezertRunner]

I'm using that Spectra one from O'Reilly. I will mention that the first one I got was a China manufactured one that crapped it's pickup minutes after initial startup. I warranty swapped it for another (lifetime warranty on it) and that one was a Taiwanese manufactured one. For whatever reason, the Taiwanese one was considerably better put together in terms of the quality of the components.

I moved my Motorcraft TFI module over to it and kept the TFI that came on it as a spare. One thing I did notice about these units is many of them really don't have a lot of thermal compound on them for the TFI, which could cause early TFI burn out. I'd strongly suggest removing the TFI and adding thermal compound if necessary.

I've entrusted my new distributor to a few long trips so far without issue. Typically you won't wind up with a bum part to start with, but unfortunately in volume manufacturing, a bad component will get through quality control once in a while and into the market.

Thank you for you're insight, I was leaning towards the Remand from NAPA, assuming it is a Motorcraft Reman unit. If it is not, I will go with the one from O'Rilly and maybe check what they have and request the Taiwanese one. I did see you're thread, and am hoping swapping out this unit will solve my problem.

[DerekTheGreat]

Some things I am used to in Carb's right off the bat from over the years. Heat soak, a platonic spacer works wonders for isolating heat transfer from intake to carb, especially when aluminum. Also, thermo wrapping the fuel line in the engine bay and routing so it does not touch the block or heat has always 100% fixed fuel boiling in the carb even on 100+ days for me. Along with additives or better yet always using non ethonal fuel helps with clogged or gummy internals. Even then, you can R&I a carb and rebuild it in under an hour with minimal tools.

Well, build your experience with EFI and you'll be able to troubleshoot stuff "right off the bat" after awhile. Non ethanol gas is nonexistent around here and I'd rather not have to keep a box of additives in the trunk. It's bad enough that with most of my vehicles I keep a 5qt jug of oil in them since most burn. I'm not R&I'ing a carb in under an hour, lol.

Performance parts will certainly change the characteristics of an engine. There's no way the engine in my Town Car would run any better by simply changing to a carburetor. A computer reacts to throttle input faster than a carb does as it is. Not to mention it can adjust for changing altitude conditions, climate and what not. I like my accessories, like A/C & cruise. I've never seen a conversion that kept those things functional, like how the idle is supposed to step up slightly with the A/C on or how the computer will shut the A/C off if the car gets too hot or kill fuel delivery/spark if overrevved. I've sold enough stuff to know I hate having to explain "Mods" to the next prospective buyer and I'm not going to hide things either, can't do it. I've had people screw me over but the buck stops with me.

[gadget73]

For whatever reason, the Taiwanese one was considerably better put together in terms of the quality of the components.

Not remotely surprising. Taiwan has been making good quality stuff for a couple of decades now. Even their precision machine tools are quite respectable. It all comes down to the QA practices. Taiwan has a QA department, China doesn't seem to a lot of the time.

[DezertRunner]

Alright got the distributor, egr sensor, and OBDI code scanner. I will start in the morning, and let you guys know the out come, off to dinner with the wife.

[turbo2256b]

Well, build your experience with EFI and you'll be able to troubleshoot stuff "right off the bat" after awhile. Non ethanol gas is nonexistent around here and I'd rather not have to keep a box of additives in the trunk. It's bad enough that with most of my vehicles I keep a 5qt jug of oil in them since most burn. I'm not R&I'ing a carb in under an hour, lol.

Performance parts will certainly change the characteristics of an engine. There's no way the engine in my Town Car would run any better by simply changing to a carburetor. A computer reacts to throttle input faster than a carb does as it is. Not to mention it can adjust for changing altitude conditions, climate and what not. I like my accessories, like A/C & cruise. I've never seen a conversion that kept those things functional, like how the idle is supposed to step up slightly with the A/C on or how the computer will shut the A/C off if the car gets too hot or kill fuel delivery/spark if overrevved. I've sold enough stuff to know I hate having to explain "Mods" to the next prospective buyer and I'm not going to hide things either, can't do it. I've had people screw me over but the buck stops with me.

Didnt you get to see creamy got most all of those things working actually efi even with a tweecer and 30lb injectors couldnt keep up even with the fuel economy my carbs have. Done a lot of thinking about does a engine realy need a big throttle body afr dropping instantly to 12.7 ish lowering air speed as its floored. A carb set up increases adds fuel to the curve as the rpms increase as needed. Basically until one goes with a hilborn style EFI there is little advantage between carbs and FI . Older ecms couldnt compute fast enough at rps over 7000.