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Complete dual exhaust on stock lopo speed density 5.0L

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    Complete dual exhaust on stock lopo speed density 5.0L

    My ma's CV currently has the stock speed density computer and a new, but stock single exhaust with four cats before the Y pipe. I was thinking Ford Racing ceramic coated headers in front of BBK 2.5" off road H-pipe with cats, Flowmaster 50 series mufflers (or equivalent to that has good flow numbers and are quiet), flanged exhaust dumps after the cats, possibly Impala tails, and some Monza Big Bore exhaust tips (leftovers from another project). I looked in past threads about exhaust upgrades and found nothing pertaining to speed density systems and dual exhausts. Can the SD handle this upgrade? Will the loss of two cats affect the SD? I know this sounds like a lot for a stock lo po 5.0L, but I plan on building another engine in the future and would like to have some of the car set up before the engine swap. Thank you in advance for any help on this.
    Packman

    #2
    Take it from me- dual 2.5" on a lopo sucks. What kind of motor do you plan to build?
    2011 Mustang GT Premium, MT82, Kona/Saddle, HIDs, 3.73s, 19s, hood/side stripes, UPR 1.5" springs with adjustable panhard bar, and UMI solid LCAs and relocation brackets.
    1992 Explorer Eddie Bauer, slight lift, 34s, and A/C...
    1979 Bronco Custom, 351M/C6/NP205, 4" lift, 35s, lots of fender trimming.

    Comment


      #3
      I'd say buy the 2.5" exhaust stuff but save it for your next engine. Are you going to swap in a HO crate engine or Explorer engine or something like that? I say buy the upgrades but save it for when you plan to do the swap. If you hate the stock single exhuast(who doesn't?) then you can gut the stock muffler for better flow, or get some cheap $15 mufflers like a glasspack.
      88 Town Car (wrecked, for sale)
      Walker OEM duals with muffler deletes

      Comment


        #4
        2" exhaust is plenty for the stock engine. Stick that set up from Walker Exhaust or another aftermarket stock exhaust producer. Going bigger will only drop your low end torque and make the car feel very doggy
        "Owning a 9-second Import is like coming out of the closet.... At first it may be surprising, but in the end, you're still gay!"


        www.myspace.com/nascarmechanic

        Comment


          #5
          My car doesnt feel doggy with 2.5 exhaust. My car feels doggy cause of big tires and shitty gears. With a smaller tires I can roast em all day long.
          1989 Grand Marquis LS
          flat black, 650 double pumper, random cam, hei, stealth intake, Police front springs, Wagon rear, Police rear bar, wagon front ,exploder wheels, 205/60-15 fronts 275/60-15 rears, 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" offroad x pipe, Eclipse front bucket seats, Custom floor shifter, 4.10 gears, aluminum driveshaft and daily driven. 16.77@83mph

          Comment


            #6
            My 16.03 second 1/4 mile vic ran 2.5" header back. Can't say it was sluggish.

            Look at my "recipe for a 16 second lopo" thread.... and My tips faq that is a sticky at the top of this forum....
            Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

            Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

            Comment


              #7
              I just figured that it would be good if at least the exhaust is in place when I replace the engine. The replacement engine would be a daily driver for my mom that would see some cruising and occasional trips to the track. At first I was going to buy a 5.0L block from summit and then buy a 4340 forged bottom end from Scat or Eagle if they have them for a 302 (they have them for a 347). Then I was told that 4340 would be unnecessary for my application and stock cast pieces would work. They probably would work, however, I like to error on the side of caution. I saw an old ad from DSS in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords and their Pro Bullet short block looks real good (5140 forged steel with a custom girdle). For the top end I was going to go simple and purchase a Trick Flow top end kit (I think it is the R-series) from Summit Racing. I'm going to run it with a conservative cam from Comp Cams out of P.A.W. (smallest high performance grind they had listed) for fuel economy and emissions purposes as well. That is the basic set up; nothing crazy, I am hoping for 225-250 horses. I figured that I would like to just fuss with the engine install and reduce the time doing all of this rather than just slapping everything together at once and hoping for the best when the time comes. Plus I think the dual exhaust would look pretty cool with the exhaust tips I got laying in my bedroom with all of the other automobile parts that I have collected over the years. The stock engine is pretty sluggish as is with the single 2" exhaust, stock trans, stock 2.73 rear, and a butt load of miles on the engine. I don't even try to gun the engine unless I really have to, because I just want it to last until the other engine is built. Oh, and the exhaust must be quiet ( I heard 50 series Flowmasters on a Tahoe and they were pretty quiet) when my mom goes to work in the morning and have the ability to be loud when I open it up (exhaust dumps) on the weekends (my ma loves the noise sometimes). So....if I make this upgrade ahead of time will I lose so much low end torque that my mpg will suffer? Thanks for your time and responses.
              Packman

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by packman
                I just figured that it would be good if at least the exhaust is in place when I replace the engine. The replacement engine would be a daily driver for my mom that would see some cruising and occasional trips to the track. At first I was going to buy a 5.0L block from summit and then buy a 4340 forged bottom end from Scat or Eagle if they have them for a 302 (they have them for a 347). Then I was told that 4340 would be unnecessary for my application and stock cast pieces would work.
                The reason the forged rotating assembly is unnecessary is because you'll split the stock block before you break the crank. The stock rotating assembly is stronger than the block is.

                They probably would work, however, I like to error on the side of caution. I saw an old ad from DSS in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords and their Pro Bullet short block looks real good (5140 forged steel with a custom girdle).
                Except DSS's "Level 10 billion" blocks are nothing more than a prettied up stock block, its still a thin-wall casting block that will be on borrowed time on anything beyond 500RWHP, and even that is REALLY pushing it....... A girdle does ONE good thing: It holds the pieces together when the block splits.

                For the top end I was going to go simple and purchase a Trick Flow top end kit (I think it is the R-series) from Summit Racing. I'm going to run it with a conservative cam from Comp Cams out of P.A.W. (smallest high performance grind they had listed) for fuel economy and emissions purposes as well.
                The R setup is HUGE, and much too much head/intake for a daily driven street car. It would have no low end torque, as the runners on those heads are MASSIVE. The TFS kit you might want to get is the Street Heat, which comes with the TFS #1 camshaft, which is mild. Unless you plan on converting the car to mass air though, I'd just use a stock HO cam, as swapping out to random camshafts with SD is NOT a good idea. There ARE some SD friendly camshafts, but unless you know which ones they are, you can be in for a WORLD of problems trying to tune it.

                That is the basic set up; nothing crazy, I am hoping for 225-250 horses.
                The TFS Street Heat kit makes close to 300RWHP.

                I figured that I would like to just fuss with the engine install and reduce the time doing all of this rather than just slapping everything together at once and hoping for the best when the time comes. Plus I think the dual exhaust would look pretty cool with the exhaust tips I got laying in my bedroom with all of the other automobile parts that I have collected over the years. The stock engine is pretty sluggish as is with the single 2" exhaust, stock trans, stock 2.73 rear, and a butt load of miles on the engine. I don't even try to gun the engine unless I really have to, because I just want it to last until the other engine is built. Oh, and the exhaust must be quiet ( I heard 50 series Flowmasters on a Tahoe and they were pretty quiet) when my mom goes to work in the morning and have the ability to be loud when I open it up (exhaust dumps) on the weekends (my ma loves the noise sometimes). So....if I make this upgrade ahead of time will I lose so much low end torque that my mpg will suffer? Thanks for your time and responses.
                Packman

                You are trying to move a car that weighs 4,000lbs. You have to keep that in mind when you are building this thing.

                1. The stock AOD doesn't like a whole lot of HP, so if you want your tranny to last, either buy a built tranny, or be conservative on the power side of things.

                2. Getting 4,000lbs moving is a lot easier with some more gear. I'd go with a set of 3.73's.

                3. TORQUE is your friend. While high-winding toilet-flowing parts may work well on my Capri, I wouldn't put those parts on my Town Car because it would be a DOG. That is part of the reason the stock HO camshaft works well, is because it has decent low-end grunt but can still make good power across the board. Running Heads/Intake with the stock HO camshaft is actually a relatively common thing for Mustang guys to do. The car SOUNDS stock, but makes way more power.
                1989 Town Car Cartier: 3G Alt. Upgrade, Mark VIII Electric Fan, Police Interceptor Suspension, 40-series Flows, loaded. HO+ Conversion: E7 heads, Cobra 1.7RR's, Explorer intake, 65mm TB, FMS "E" Camshaft, 4-hole 19lb/hr injectors, A9P ECM, 76mm C&L MAF, BBK CAI. 338,000Km, stock bottom-end.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sorry for the mix up, the TFS top end package I was looking at is on pg. 141 in Summit Racing (current issue). This kit is listed right above the Track Heat package. It looks to me this is the one I want because the power band comes lower in the rpm range and it makes more torque. I plan on converting to mass air because it was recommended by a friend who made similar mods on his mustang. The Comp Cams camshaft I was looking at is part# 35-349-8. It has .512 in. of lift, 212 and 215 degrees on the intake and exhaust at .050 of lift respectively, and a 114 degree lobe separation. I figured this would be the camshaft to look at because it is relatively small and would produce good torque for a heavy car, plus I think it would pass inspection as well. However, I will look at the stock HO cam and see if those numbers would work better. This would all be backed up with the DSS short block I mentioned above. This is the basic package that I thought about putting together. Low end torque and fuel economy were the main concerns when I considered building another engine for the CV. I am relatively new at building later model Ford small blocks (if you consider the pushrod 5.0L later models, it is for me because this is the newest car that we have owned so far). I wasn't planning on pushing the new engine hard until it is broken in (500-1000 miles). By the time that I put the break-in miles on the engine I would have saved up enough dough to get a performance AOD, or if I have the time rebuild one. As far as the exhaust is concerned, I just need a quiet, clean, and decent flowing exhaust with exhaust dumps. I figured I would install the recommended exhaust pieces ahead of time and save some work. I was eventually going to install a 3.55 ring and pinion for the car or maybe something slightly taller that can have the ability to climb hills and cruise the highway. I think that my mom can handle all of this because she is the main driver and occassionally would like to get some track time. I have some time to consider this rebuild because I am going to do the body work and paint first. I just like to get as much info as possible before I step into it. Thank you for all of your help and recommendations.
                  Packman

                  Comment


                    #10
                    How many miles are on the stock engine? What's the oil pressure like? Have you done a compression test? How about a leak-down test?

                    If the engine tests out healthy, you are throwing your money away on the DSS engine and could very simply do heads, intake and HO camshaft on your stock shortblock. The DSS engine is no stronger than your current block....................

                    The engine in my Capri, which was out of my '87 GT, has 330,000Km on it. I just put a new cam in it (custom grind) and did heads/cam/intake on it last year. Why? Because its healthy. There was no point in building a new engine because even with the high mileage, there is nothing wrong with the engine. Pegs the blow-off on the stock pump cold, 65psi, and then will hold around 38-40psi hot at an idle. Now, its an HO, so it'll take more abuse than the SO engine in stock form (better firing order, less bearing wear, forged pistons....etc) but I would do the above checks on your engine before I went out and dropped some serious coin on a shortblock you may not need.

                    The stock HO camshaft, run with 1.7 roller rockers is a good cam choice for a heavy car.
                    Last edited by OVERKILL; 12-30-2006, 05:16 PM.
                    1989 Town Car Cartier: 3G Alt. Upgrade, Mark VIII Electric Fan, Police Interceptor Suspension, 40-series Flows, loaded. HO+ Conversion: E7 heads, Cobra 1.7RR's, Explorer intake, 65mm TB, FMS "E" Camshaft, 4-hole 19lb/hr injectors, A9P ECM, 76mm C&L MAF, BBK CAI. 338,000Km, stock bottom-end.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      To answer the original question, you can change the exhaust without any negative affect on the engine. The only thing you have to do is make sure you have a place to install the oxygen sensors, and have long enough wires to plug them in. Mustang H pipes move the sensors downward, and the stock O2 sensors are not long enough. You'll either need to extend the stock wires, or install new Mustang sensors. If you have original sensors with a lot of miles, new ones would be a good idea anyway.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That sounds cool, thanks for the intel. I will do the above checks. As far as miles are concerned; we're the third owners and I am not sure how many times the odometer was turned over. The first owner used the car for everything (going to work, vacations, taking the kids to school, and whatever) for thirteen years and the second owner was a kid that used the car to go to college and whatever else he did for three years before selling it to us. Right now it is just over 80k. The main reason I wanted to go the route that I mentioned is because my mom can still drive the car while I put another engine together. If I took her engine apart (it would have to be outside and possibly within the chassis because we have no functional garage) she would have to use my Chevelle and that is too quirky for her to drive (B&M Mega shifter, a sticky starter that I am too lazy to change or mess with, and I think that is it). However, you are right, I can look at what she's got and see if we can work something out if the engine is still healthy. It runs pretty smooth but I should really dig a little deeper. Thanks for the input!!!!
                        Packman

                        Comment


                          #13
                          O2 sensors are really only good for about 60k anyway before they start to become slow to respond and inaccurate. If you have no idea when they were changed, they probably should be done. Its one of those things very few people replace unless they break. They arent too expensive, figure about 50 bucks for a pair of Mustang ones. You can use those in stock manifolds too, just wire-tie the extra wiring out of the way.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for the heads up, I know I definitely would have missed that.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              In my opinion, take the money you were going to put into an exhaust and go to your nearest U-Pull-It junk yard. Find a 4cyl Ranger with 3.73s and traction lock, take the carrier and pinion from that... and put it into a Panther axle with discs on it. Go ahead and find a box Panther with a rear sway bar and take the bar and lower control arms while you're in there. You can probably make off with all of it for $100-150, then pay someone $150 to properly set up the carrier and gears in the housing. For $250-300 you can have 3.73s, traclock, rear discs, and rear swaybar.
                              2011 Mustang GT Premium, MT82, Kona/Saddle, HIDs, 3.73s, 19s, hood/side stripes, UPR 1.5" springs with adjustable panhard bar, and UMI solid LCAs and relocation brackets.
                              1992 Explorer Eddie Bauer, slight lift, 34s, and A/C...
                              1979 Bronco Custom, 351M/C6/NP205, 4" lift, 35s, lots of fender trimming.

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