351 efi buildup

[Paul_]

when i go 351, i'm going with the sefi 351(would be easier than converting my fuel system to accept a carb. i know the efi 351's have a taller intake than the 302 and won't clear a stock hood, but i'm going to be solving that with prob. 3 inch cowl induction setup. my plan is to grab one and build it up over the next two years. now

1. are there any good 351w parts sites(frpp's site does not work on my pc,lol)
2. can the mustang 19lb injectors be used on a 351w?
3. will i have to make any alterations to my fuel system, even though they are both efi?
4. are the 5.8efi's speed density or mass air?
5. around how much to have the heads ported, plolished, and the motor balanced?
6. will i have to get an adapter for the tv cable? i know the aod will bolt up to the 351, but i also plan on replacing the stock upper and lower intake with an aftermarket setup
7. any excellent heads out there for 351's?
8. cam reccomendations? ithe car will be my dd, and an occasional run at ne dragway
9. iis it possible to do a 3g conversion on a 351? i'd rather just have a reliable lug and not a fire hazard plug,lol

since this will be over a couple of years, i don't nescarilly have a miniscule budget. basically i want this thing to be a monster of sorts. also when i get ready to install the motor, beforehand i'm going to steamclean the front end(i'm going to disassemble everything cept the fenders to make the removal and installation smoother. i'm also before the motor goes in, i'm going to do the 98+steering upgrade. that way, i have tons o room to work with. i know i need the newer steering box and someone said that i would need a new pitman arm as well when i do that. i also plan on replacing all the balljoints and the springs. i also plan on getting pi shocks at all 4 corners.

i could go with the ho conversion, but i think i would see more power gains from the beefed up 351, and an efi 351 in a box would be unique as i do not know of anyone that has done it. i also know theres a wealth of knowledge floating round this board and i intend to use it.

thanks in advance guys!

[Paul_]

couple more things. is the belt that bypasses the air pump but still runs the ac compressor compatible with a 351 or is there a different belt.

and will i just be able to swap over my accesoriy brackets to the 351?

also forgot to mention when i do the steering upgrade i'm replacing my power steering pump with a heavier duty model, so i should have no rpbs with the cars steering,lol

[Lincolnmania]

ok some answers to the best of my knowledge here......
1 check corral.net and gefracing.com also fordfuelinjection.com and you may find some help on fordvschevy.com too
2 yes 19 lb injectors will probably work, but you might want 24's.........try to snag a set out of a junked mark8
3 you will have to modify a truck 351 efi fuel rail somehow.......i've never researched it........the parts should all be available new........check on corral.net for more answers.........i assume you want to use used factory parts that are more affordable........not sure about the fuel pump
4 truck 5.8's are speed density, but you mostlikely will want to go with a mass air setup in your car running a better camshaft
5 not sure how much for balancing........as for heads i would reccomend spending $595 for a pair of thumper performance ported e7's
6 you shouldnt need an adaptor as long as you use the stock crown vic throttle lever on the new throttle body........i would think 70 mm would be a good start
7 see number 5........make sure you tell thumper they are for a 351w (w's have a larger diameter head bolt)
8 talk to a couple cam manufacturers as for a decent grind for a heavy car
9 yes the 3ag altenator will work.........you also will need all 351w accesory brackets........the pulleys should all be the same.....i'm me for more questions
10 there is no spoon :rock:
scott

[Paul_]

Scott, thanks for the links and the info

[Lincolnmania]

no problem.....youre welcome.....anytime dude!
would u wear a black and grey gmn tye dye?

[Sambos86LTD]

I would love a EFI 351 in my Vic.

[Paul_]

no problem.....youre welcome.....anytime dude!
would u wear a black and grey gmn tye dye?

sure

[Cogs]

I plan on building up a 351EFI for the 2 door. Dunno how yet though.

[NitroNic]

I would love a EFI 351 in my Vic.

I would love a carbureted 351w in my Merc. After driving my dad's truck this weekend.... Makes me want to go find a 351w from something and make it work.

Besides buying a brand new engine... anyone have suggestions on vehciles to look for one of these engines in? ANd if it's a vehicle with fuel injected engine... would it be any major deal to change it to carbureted? I figure stuff like intake manifold change... mechanical fuel pump... taking alot of wiring and various computers and sensors and such out.... ignition... a carburetor, of course.

ANd how much heavier is a 351W compared to a 302? I wonder if my front end would sit a hair lower.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Well nic, im going with a carb'd 351W out of a truck...

with a rebuild and forged pistons and a GOOD set of heads, it will make a shitload of axle twistin power... Also, i think the weight difference is around 150 lbs, but maybe someone can correct me...

I figure with the removal of my A/C, that counteracts the weight.

[Mercracer]

Just get a GT-40 351 lower ($200 used) and use an Explorer upper.
Use GT-40 heads ($300 used) for a budget build.
There is less than 100lbs difference between a 351 and 302. Only takes 10HP to make up the difference. No big deal.
Use Mustang MAF stuff.

[Pirate]

Re: 351 efi buildup

when i go 351, i'm going with the sefi 351(would be easier than converting my fuel system to accept a carb. i know the efi 351's have a taller intake than the 302 and won't clear a stock hood, but i'm going to be solving that with prob. 3 inch cowl induction setup. my plan is to grab one and build it up over the next two years. now

1. are there any good 351w parts sites(frpp's site does not work on my pc,lol)
2. can the mustang 19lb injectors be used on a 351w?
3. will i have to make any alterations to my fuel system, even though they are both efi?
4. are the 5.8efi's speed density or mass air?
5. around how much to have the heads ported, plolished, and the motor balanced?
6. will i have to get an adapter for the tv cable? i know the aod will bolt up to the 351, but i also plan on replacing the stock upper and lower intake with an aftermarket setup
7. any excellent heads out there for 351's?
8. cam reccomendations? ithe car will be my dd, and an occasional run at ne dragway
9. iis it possible to do a 3g conversion on a 351? i'd rather just have a reliable lug and not a fire hazard plug,lol

since this will be over a couple of years, i don't nescarilly have a miniscule budget. basically i want this thing to be a monster of sorts. also when i get ready to install the motor, beforehand i'm going to steamclean the front end(i'm going to disassemble everything cept the fenders to make the removal and installation smoother. i'm also before the motor goes in, i'm going to do the 98+steering upgrade. that way, i have tons o room to work with. i know i need the newer steering box and someone said that i would need a new pitman arm as well when i do that. i also plan on replacing all the balljoints and the springs. i also plan on getting pi shocks at all 4 corners.

i could go with the ho conversion, but i think i would see more power gains from the beefed up 351, and an efi 351 in a box would be unique as i do not know of anyone that has done it. i also know theres a wealth of knowledge floating round this board and i intend to use it.

thanks in advance guys!

1. If you want a good 5.8 intake to bolt up exactly to your engine, and still work backwards...the Trick flow specialties 5.8 intake is reversible(so you can run the TB to the driver's side)...and better than the GT40...other than that, 351W parts? Just go to summit racing. You will also need the BBK 351W shorty swap headers along with switching to a mustang H-pipe exhaust....if you are going for low end torque, use a Hooker 2 1/4 offroad H-pipe if you have no smog testing.

2. 19 lb injectors on a 5.8? Uh, NO. The 5.8's came factory with 19 pounders, yes, but anything beyond a stock 5.8 truck motor requires 24 pounders, and 30 #'ers are my choice for any 351W over stock.

3. You just have to cut off the plastic fuel lines that tie the two fuel rails together, and add longer FUEL INJECTION rubber hose with FUEL INJECTION hose clamps. Sorry for the big type, but I have personally seen 4 guys burn their cars and trucks to the ground because they ignored that advice....Additionally, you need to add a 190 liter Mustang in-tank fuel pump, espcially if the engine is going to be modified, and an adjustable FPR would be a good idea, too...

4. certain 1994-up california trucks have mass air... All 1996-1997 trucks also have mass air. One again, use mustang Mass Air goodies, preferably a 73 mm unit calibrated to the proper size injectors.

5. Around 200-500 to get the engine balanced...it depends on how much mallory metal(if any) they have to use to get the crank right. Heads? GT40P heads or up, anything else is a waste on that engine, although a set of prepped D0OE 351W heads would not run too bad....I would just buy a set of the GT40P's, they are ready to bolt onto the engine, and they make a lot of low end torque.

6. Cam? DD? The stock 5.0 HO mustang cam for the most torque, and the Trick Flow specialties Stage 1 cam.....of course, those if you are using roller cam 1993-1997 351w blocks...I will not use a flat tappet cam anymore(the zinc has been taken out of all motor oil except for a Napa-only Valvoline racing oil, it takes out the cam lobes when you don't have the lubricating properties of zinc....additionally, currently, there are only about 2 companies in the USA making flat tappet lifters right now, and they are both junk), so I would go roller retrofit. You may get a flat tappet to last, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

7. Excellent Heads for the 351W? Yes, the AFR 165 for low end insane grunt, the AFR 185 for more midrange and top end...the best head out there(both around $1300, and well worth the money if you can save up). For less money, you also cannot go wrong with a set of the new ROush 180's.....other than that, if you can find a set of Edelbrocks with 1.94 intake valves....or you come down once again to a set of GT40P's....in my mind, the best stock head ford has ever produced for the 302.

8. If you use the stock throttle cable setup with a hogged-out stock CV EGR spacer, it should bolt right up. You will have to drill out any aftermarket TB you use, though, to switch the holes on the TB throttle plate.

If it were my car, and I wanted the most torque possible? I would build a Long Rod motor....usually adds about 70 hp over a stock connecting rod 351W, and absolutely nothing else is affected.......but a Warning: you have to run aluminum heads with this setup, or a 64 cc head (roush 200) iron head....but the aluminum heads with 58 cc chambers allow 11:1 compression with pump gas......

Brackets? Get a set off of a 351W car, as they are different from a 302...I think I have a complete set floating around....lol....

I also need more info about the 98-up steering upgrade, please....

[Mercracer]

Re: 351 efi buildup

GT40P heads or up, anything else is a waste on that engine, although a set of prepped D0OE 351W heads would not run too bad....I would just buy a set of the GT40P's, they are ready to bolt onto the engine, and they make a lot of low end torque.

I will not use a flat tappet cam anymore(the zinc has been taken out of all motor oil except for a Napa-only Valvoline racing oil, it takes out the cam lobes when you don't have the lubricating properties of zinc....additionally, currently, there are only about 2 companies in the USA making flat tappet lifters right now, and they are both junk), so I would go roller retrofit. You may get a flat tappet to last, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

If it were my car, and I wanted the most torque possible? I would build a Long Rod motor....usually adds about 70 hp over a stock connecting rod motor.

Dude, some of your advice is a little bit off.
The 351W roller blocks started with F4TE (1994) blocks.
GT-40 heads are bolt on (1/2" bolt holes) including Mustang Cobra and 1996 Explorer 302 heads.
All GT-40 P heads have the 302 sized bolt holes (7/16), and must be drilled out for a 351. Let's not forget the limited header selection for the P heads.
It takes quite a bit of work to get a set of C9OE or D0OE heads to just flow as well as GT-40 heads do stock.
Nothing wrong with a flat tappet cam and quality lifters. I am running a flat tappet Crane Cam and Crane flat lifters in a big block with no problems. 4000lbs and 12.40's with leaf springs.
That is just plain wrong to claim 70 HP with long rods and no other changes.

[Pirate]

Re: 351 efi buildup

GT40P heads or up, anything else is a waste on that engine, although a set of prepped D0OE 351W heads would not run too bad....I would just buy a set of the GT40P's, they are ready to bolt onto the engine, and they make a lot of low end torque.

I will not use a flat tappet cam anymore(the zinc has been taken out of all motor oil except for a Napa-only Valvoline racing oil, it takes out the cam lobes when you don't have the lubricating properties of zinc....additionally, currently, there are only about 2 companies in the USA making flat tappet lifters right now, and they are both junk), so I would go roller retrofit. You may get a flat tappet to last, but I wouldn't place a bet on it.

If it were my car, and I wanted the most torque possible? I would build a Long Rod motor....usually adds about 70 hp over a stock connecting rod motor.

Dude, some of your advice is a little bit off.
The 351W roller blocks started with F4TE (1994) blocks.
GT-40 heads are bolt on (1/2" bolt holes) including Mustang Cobra and 1996 Explorer 302 heads.
All GT-40 P heads have the 302 sized bolt holes (7/16), and must be drilled out for a 351. Let's not forget the limited header selection for the P heads.
It takes quite a bit of work to get a set of C9OE or D0OE heads to just flow as well as GT-40 heads do stock.
Nothing wrong with a flat tappet cam and quality lifters. I am running a flat tappet Crane Cam and Crane flat lifters in a big block with no problems. 4000lbs and 12.40's with leaf springs.
That is just plain wrong to claim 70 HP with long rods and no other changes.

First of all, "dude", with my having actually owned a F3 1993 roller cam block out of a lightning.....having installed cams in two 1993 "F3" trucks....

GT40 heads are bolt ons, with 1/2 inch bolt holes? I had to drill out a set of 1994 cobra heads to 1/2 bolt holes to get them to work on his 351W truck....

Are you completely ignorant of what head was on the 1996 Explorer? That was a GT40 "P", you idiot. You then say that the Explorer head was a 1/2" bolt hole regular Non-"P" GT40 head?

Gt40 heads? the Non-"P" version? Once you remove the air injection bump out of the D0OE 351W head, the flow charts are pretty much duplicated between the GT40 and the D0OE....but the 351W has a smaller combustion chamber for more compression....you do the math.

You must not do much reading of any auto news sites, or well, much of any reading....there is, at this time, only one or two companies making hydraulic lifters in the entire USA. There were four a few years ago, but foreign competition killed two of them off, and the third died in backruptcy(this third company is where Competition cams got their lifters...Comp made off with a truckload of their lifters right as the U.S. Marshalls were seizing the place). I think someone is trying to, or has revived the third company.
Couple this with:
Automakers have complained for years to oil companies to reduce the amount of Zinc in the oil....why? Oil bleeding into the combustion chamber carried this zinc straight to the catalytic convertor, and helps foul it. The oil companies removed the zinc...but Zinc was a major cushion for metal to metal contact srufaces...and cars with flat tappet lifters and cams were in deep doo doo. I have contact with two engine shops (I have friends who work in both). Both shops build a lot of road racing and circle track engines...and both are trying to find a way to stay the hell away from flat tappets, they have had some SERIOUS comebacks with cam failure after cam failure; the cam and lifter metal goes straight to the bearings, and wipes them out.

No, just ignore me.

Long Rods?
Check out the rod ratio of a 4.6 engine, and come back to talk to me...please, also tell the dead ghost of Smokey Yunick that he was an absolute fucking liar also, that there is no way that long rods make that much extra power....and please tell the dyno operators I have worked with that there is no such thing as long rods making more power....please, tell us all we are just lying to piss you off, you mechanic of meager talents. Please also tell me how Long Rods also do not work well with engines of diminished intake and head capacity, and how I lied to you about it.

You really just need to shut the hell up, you get dumber-sounding with each comment.....

A big block car, 4000 lbs, with leaf springs, running 12.40's? Wow, that took rocket science....if you have a decent 460 in that car, you don't need to do to much to it, you make it sound like you spent 30 years to get that ET slip....

[Mercracer]

Re: 351 efi buildup

I haven't figured out if you are just fucking with me, you are lying through your ass, or just another internet poser wannabe.

Just in case you were confused, NO 351W Lightning came with a roller cam. They did use the same blocks, however, as the other 1994+ 351W truck motors which did come with a roller cam.
You did NOT have to drill any GT-40 head out. The GT-40 head was being marketed through SVO long before the 1993 Cobra came out, and they never came with a 7/16 bolt hole. They all came with 1/2" bolt holes. The Cobra head and the Lightning head are the same head with additional machining on the Cobra head to reduce the chamber volumes. The 1996 Explorer motors DID come with standard GT-40 heads w/ 1/2" bolt holes. This is common knowledge for those of us who have actually work on these engines, unlike keyboard cowboys such as yourself. Mid production 1997 was the first use of the F77E GT-40P head. Note the F7.
You are absolutely full of shit about the long rod motors. I am not denying that with some engine combinations you may see some benefit, but not 70HP from a rod length change alone. That is just plain stupid to claim that.
Circle Track and Road Racing are different applications than Drag Racing and Street Driving. If there is an issue with the flat tappet cams it is because of the sustained elevated RPM's and engine heat of the first two.

You do the math Einstein. The D0OE and C9AE heads have near identical combustion chamber sizes as the Cobra GT-40 and all GT-40P (60cc). All other GT-40 heads had the larger chambers which include the 1996 Explorer GT-40 heads, Lightning truck, marine 302/351 and the SVO/FRPP GT-40 heads at 65cc.