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LoPo vs Explorer vs HO Torque Curves

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    LoPo vs Explorer vs HO Torque Curves

    After quite a bit of searching, and then working with Engine Analyzer software, I've put together some torque curves for us all. The LoPo curve is based on a dyno run, while the rest are from the software using Explorer and HO cams, with E7 heads (thermactor bosses removed).



    I did this work to validate my own cam choice (I bought an Explorer cam) before I did the work to install it. Depending on the various inputs, the results are consistent: slightly more torque down low, and less up top (with the Explorer). Since I'll be sticking with the 4400 RPM governor, I'll accept the trade off. For you - you make your own decisions.

    P.S. Since all I care about is torque numbers, the HP is not included.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by 89GrandMarquis; 02-10-2006, 12:50 AM.


    HO with Explorer Cam, Electric Fan, Cop Sway Bars, Dual exhaust with no mufflers, 15x7" American Racing; 215/70R15's front, 255/60R15's rear, 3.55's with Trak-Lok.

    #2
    Is that a with a bone stock MPFI lopo? Sad how the torque curve is all down hill vs an HO or Explorer motor.
    Current rides - 1991 Ford Thunderbird 3.8 v6 (gas saver/DD) - New Heads/Headgaskets with ARP studs, Air Silencer Delete, 70mm MAF, Plasti-dipped Matte Black with a Silver Metalflake Overlay, Muffler Delete, some LED's, 30.233 MPG for high MPG average!
    2006 Jeep Wrangler 4WD (fun vehicle/backup DD) - 4.0/6spd - too many mods to list.

    Associated Panthers:
    Father's 1994 Ford Crown Victoria - Stock, 45,000 miles.
    Sold in 2007 - 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "Grandpa Special" 2 door.
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2128327

    Comment


      #3
      Stock motor, no air box (3" intake tube with conical air filter) open exhaust after the y-pipe.


      HO with Explorer Cam, Electric Fan, Cop Sway Bars, Dual exhaust with no mufflers, 15x7" American Racing; 215/70R15's front, 255/60R15's rear, 3.55's with Trak-Lok.

      Comment


        #4
        Who opens the exahust after a Y pipe. :-P.

        Nice compare sheet.
        1989 LTD Crown Victoria LX.
        -3.73s' w/ Track Loc - KYB GR-2 Shocks All Around - TRW HD Cargo Coils Rear - Moog Front Coils - 1 Inch Rear Sway Bar - 4.6 Lower Air Box- Stock Headers - Off Road H Pipe - Turbo Mufflers.

        4 Door Muscle
        Supermotors

        Comment


          #5
          wow my ho in the towncar has a much wider tourque band than that.......must be those thumper heads
          scott

          1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
          2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
          1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
          1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
          2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
          1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

          please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

          Comment


            #6
            My lopo seems to gain power with rpm increase.
            Project \"Fire and Ice\":

            1989 LTC

            My worst enemies are those who presume me to be harmless. They cannot imagine how much I resent and disdain them, or just how great a threat they would face if I could get at them. Everything in their behavior speaks of insult and presumptuousness, and for now it is all I can do to make constructive use of my anger toward them. At this time, I just make a list of them and keep a watch on. Some day, with the help of time, space, and circumstance, I will be able to humiliate them properly - not in a manner they would enjoy, but in a style calculated to make them wish that they had never been born.



            Anton Szandor LaVey

            Comment


              #7
              Yeah, put a complete exhaust system on the car and you will get a much more realistic curve. PS: Why is the LOPO curve drawn in by hand?

              Comment


                #8
                LoPo vs Explorer vs HO Torque Curves

                Originally posted by Blaze86Vic
                Yeah, put a complete exhaust system on the car and you will get a much more realistic curve. PS: Why is the LOPO curve drawn in by hand?
                A complete exhaust should change the results slightly (5 to 10 ft-lbs).

                The curve is drawn in by hand because the first two curves came straight from the software. The LoPo curve was copied from a dyno sheet.

                And this is NOT my car on the dyno - its from someone over in crownvic.net. But for that matter - who dyno's a near bone-stock LoPo? Seems to be a waste of $$$. I've got duals out to the bumper!

                Originally posted by Roach III
                My lopo seems to gain power with rpm increase.
                I agree that the "twin-cheek" g-meter can be misleading (mine is not calibrated). My GTech Competition Pro (an in-car HP/TQ datalogger) pretty much agrees with these numbers.

                Remember the following ratings:
                LoPo1 => 270 ft-lb at 2200 RPM
                LoPo2 => 270 ft-lb at 2000 RPM (different source)
                HO => 300 ft-lb at 3300 RPM
                Exploder => 288 ft-lb at 3300 RPM (with GT40 heads, NOT E7s)
                Exploder => 280 ft-lb at 3500 RPM (same as above, different year)

                Anyway, I've seen other number that vary a little here or a little there - but my goal was not minute accuracy, but overall profiles. Generally, one would expect that Explorer to more provide more torque, but fall off earlier. The curve agrees. The Explorer curve is with E7s. The curve changes with GT40s - fattens up pretty much everywhere. Also note that FORD provides most of these ratings. They are torque peaks. On each side of the peak, the curve drops - plain and simple.

                My own GTech results show a continually decreasing TQ curve for my non-HO motor. The dyno results show this, too. Whether the LoPo peaks at 2000 or 2200 RPM isn't an issue - the issue is mainly - where is the peak and how broad is the curve.

                Again, other changes from stock exhaust will change the curves again. How? Generally you will fatten up the upper RPM numbers but potentially weaken the low numbers.

                I would offer this advice to those considering the Exploder cam. If you are 100% confident that your engine mods will stop after you put in the Exploder cam, AND you want more low-end grunt, AND you will stick with your stock governor, the Expoder cam MAY be for you. With an Exploder cam, you just to realize that no matter what you do after the cam swap, the upper RPMs just will fall flat (compared to the HO).

                Why did I buy the Exploder cam? Main reason: $$$. For $40 shipped to my door I got a no-miles Exploder cam. I didn't want used, I wanted new. If I couldn't buy a new cam in that price range, then I'd be sticking with the LoPo cam and E7 heads. In addition, I wanted as much down-low grunt as I could get. If my decision bothers you, then please send me $$$ so I can buy a no-miles HO cam.
                Last edited by Blaze86Vic; 02-10-2006, 11:49 AM.


                HO with Explorer Cam, Electric Fan, Cop Sway Bars, Dual exhaust with no mufflers, 15x7" American Racing; 215/70R15's front, 255/60R15's rear, 3.55's with Trak-Lok.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BlackHawkA4
                  Who opens the exhaust after a Y pipe. :-P.

                  Nice compare sheet.
                  Me!!! When I bought the Grand Marquis last year, the previous owner used "wire" to hold the single exhaust on. The exhaust system after the Y-pipe was corroded beyond belief from all the road salt we use up here in the Northeast. I sawed off the exhaust after the Y-pipe and haven't bolted anything else on yet. (The car sounds wicked evil)!

                  Originally posted by 89GrandMarquis
                  who dyno's a near bone-stock LoPo?
                  I did!!! Everyone always says their car is making this much horsepower or that much horsepower. It's all bullshit until you strap it to a dyno or run it at the track. I dynoed my GM to get my baseline numbers. The shop saves the data and compares any changes I make when I go back. I'm doing the HO conversion soon and I wanted to know exactly what the car is making "before" and "after" I bolt on the parts. I also wanted to know exactly what my car puts to the pavement, not anyone else's numbers. You wanted to use the Explorer cam and that's fine with me. Other guys here use the HO cam and that's fine with me too. I'm deviating from the stock HO recipe. So stay tuned!!!


                  '90 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
                  Baseline 5.0L numbers totally stock, 123 rwhp, 239 rwtq
                  5.4L swap coming soon.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The stock HO is really a fairly gutless engine under about 2200 rpm. Anyone who has ever driven a car powered by one will tell you that mashing the pedal makes the motor pick up speed, but as soon as it hits 22-2500 rpm, its like you switched on two more cylenders and the thing goes like a scalded dog. Its just the cam and head flow characteristics that make them do this. Better heads widen out that torque curve a lot. I've driven Scott's car, and it doesn't have that 2500 rpm "kick in the ass" that my car has. Only real difference in driveline is the rear and exhaust.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thats why every time I pulled up to a stop light against an HO foxbody they wouldnt touch the Lo-po in the capri out of the hole. I like my lo-po. All the ass out of the hole where you need it around town.
                      1989 Grand Marquis LS
                      flat black, 650 double pumper, random cam, hei, stealth intake, Police front springs, Wagon rear, Police rear bar, wagon front ,exploder wheels, 205/60-15 fronts 275/60-15 rears, 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" offroad x pipe, Eclipse front bucket seats, Custom floor shifter, 4.10 gears, aluminum driveshaft and daily driven. 16.77@83mph

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Only problem is the heads on them suck too. Trucks are an E7 headded lopo motor. Torque down low, plus more airflow and 19 lb injectors. Thats really the engine that belongs in our cars. If you just put better heads on a standard lopo you get pretty much the same effect but ideally the ecm would need to be reprogramed to allow for fatter injectors and airflow. Hmm, you know that would be a really spectacular use for a 91 cali mass air ECM.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment

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