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Pulled some codes today

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    Pulled some codes today

    Got a bunch of codes today, both for KOEO and KOER. It stumbles when coming to a stop and at low rpms sometimes along with lacking power. Idle changes the longer the car has been running, gets worse the longer the car is running. Gas mileage is half of what it should be, about 9-10mpg in the city, 15 mpg on the highway. I checked for leaks including the injectors but didn't find any.

    KOEO:
    Code 34: EGR Valve Position sensor or PFE sensor
    Code 13: RPM out of specification during normal idle operation
    Code 43: Oxygen sensor indicates lean conditon

    KOER:
    Code 34
    Code 43
    Code 49: Electronic Distrubutorless Ignition System spark advance error, Spout signal changed to 10*btdc, or 1 to 2 shift error.
    Code 35: EGR Valve position sensor or pfe sensor, signal voltage above self test limits, or signal voltage too high during normal engine operation, or rpm too low for self test.

    I forgot to do the WOT test, so there might be more codes than I have now. During the KOER test, the car was idling very high during the entire time (guess 2500 to 3000 rpm range).

    I did replace the EGR valve position sensor last year, along with replacing the graphite gasket and cleaning the egr valve itself. Would a mustang egr valve work if the valve itself is bad, I have one I could use? The ignition timing was adjusted before to stock specs along with replacing the plugs, cap, rotor, and wires.

    Also, why would the gas mileage be poor if its running lean? It looks (little bit of white smoke) and smells like its running lean. I don't have a blown headgasket, coolant is clean and the oil still looks as good as it did when I changed it 1500 miles ago. The cataytics and the oxygen sensors are original though.
    Last edited by 87mefull; 05-12-2006, 08:38 PM.
    Current rides - 1991 Ford Thunderbird 3.8 v6 (gas saver/DD) - New Heads/Headgaskets with ARP studs, Air Silencer Delete, 70mm MAF, Plasti-dipped Matte Black with a Silver Metalflake Overlay, Muffler Delete, some LED's, 30.233 MPG for high MPG average!
    2006 Jeep Wrangler 4WD (fun vehicle/backup DD) - 4.0/6spd - too many mods to list.

    Associated Panthers:
    Father's 1994 Ford Crown Victoria - Stock, 45,000 miles.
    Sold in 2007 - 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "Grandpa Special" 2 door.
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2128327

    #2
    High idle plus lean code and the rpm out of range code makes me think possible vacuum leak. Vac leak could also be related to the egr problem. Check all the lines, clear all the codes and try again.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      #3
      first, you may want to check the archive which has a more accurate desciption of the codes you listed.


      the car idles high because the ISC motor is dirty (stuck) or the motor is faulty, which is idicated by code 13. the first thing I would do is clear the trouble codes and clean the ISC Motor. Pull the negative battery cable, step on the brake pedal to clear the codes.

      Code 49 also needs to adressed. inspect the SPOUT connector, make sure there are no wiring problems and there is no corrosion on the connectors for the SPOUT plug. If all that checks out, you may have an igntion module that is failing

      code 34 and 35 are most likely vaccum related since you say you replace the EVP recently. inspect the vaccum harness on the passenger side for cracks and/or broken hoses. verify the main feed hose (red) is connected to the port in the rear of the intake. also check out the Green vaccum hose going to the EGR valve. If you have a hand held vaccum pump, you can apply vaccum to the EGR valve and make sure it opens properly and doesnt leak.
      another likely problem is the EVR solenoid is stuck and causing a vacuum leak. Its mounted the passenger fender well with the tab and tad solenoids.
      2003 Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, Dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 9/2011
      89 Crown Victoria LX HPP -- SOLD 9/2010
      88 Grand Marquis LS - The Original -- Totaled 5/2006


      I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

      Comment


        #4
        I'll check for a vacumm leak, it seems the idling problems would be from a vacumm leak. I think there might be a vacumm leak on one of the lines on the upper intake.

        I did replace the IAC valve about a month ago since the original one failed. I'll test it tommorow though. Its running the same way when the original IAC failed, with the idle surging problems.

        For the timing and ignition code, would it throw that code if the computer has to adjust the timing for a lean condition or vacumm leak? I thought it might throw that code due to the lean condition or a vacumm leak. I'll check the module though, it has been having starting problems. It either turns over right away (cranks over once) or it cranks over several times and struggles to get started (sounds like the ignition is not firing right, but the car gets plenty of fuel).

        Also, it idles high but very rough (engine shakes alot).
        Last edited by 87mefull; 05-13-2006, 11:34 PM.
        Current rides - 1991 Ford Thunderbird 3.8 v6 (gas saver/DD) - New Heads/Headgaskets with ARP studs, Air Silencer Delete, 70mm MAF, Plasti-dipped Matte Black with a Silver Metalflake Overlay, Muffler Delete, some LED's, 30.233 MPG for high MPG average!
        2006 Jeep Wrangler 4WD (fun vehicle/backup DD) - 4.0/6spd - too many mods to list.

        Associated Panthers:
        Father's 1994 Ford Crown Victoria - Stock, 45,000 miles.
        Sold in 2007 - 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "Grandpa Special" 2 door.
        http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2128327

        Comment


          #5
          sounds like heavy vac leak problems to me. the timing doesn't adjust really because of a leak, its more rpm based. make sure the spout connector is there and plugged in, otherwise you'll have zero advance, which causes power loss and poopy fuel economy.
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #6
            Found one major problem, the power steering pump was leaking badly. I went to drive the car today and it had little to no fluid in it. I filled it and the car ran alot better, but the pressure is really inconsistent. The line that goes into the steering box is leaking badly and steering is barely controllable.

            No vacumm leaks from what I checked, but I'm going to borrow a vacumm gauge to check for any leaks. I did remove and clean the IAC and reset the throttle body. The engine almost stalled but continued to stay running, so I cleaned it out. I reinstalled it and the car stalled right away with it unplugged.

            After I checked everything, I reset the computer and let it sit for a few minutes. I then took the car for a 15 minute drive and my mpg went up to 14-15mpg, which is pretty good for city mileage. I checked for codes after I let it cool off, but only for KOEO. I didn't have time to check codes with the car running, but I'll check after I fix the line for the power steering pump.

            Spout connector is plugged in, I never adjusted the timing myself because I don't have a timing light. I took it my dad's mechanic and he set it at 10BTDC. He's been working on fords for years and has owned a couple of panthers, so its set correctly. The ignition module could be failing though.

            KOEO:
            I still get code 34 twice in a row, then code 13 (rpm out of range) and then code 43 (o2 lean conditon). The idle is higher than it should be, but I haven't fixed the power steering pump leaks.
            Last edited by 87mefull; 05-14-2006, 10:21 PM.
            Current rides - 1991 Ford Thunderbird 3.8 v6 (gas saver/DD) - New Heads/Headgaskets with ARP studs, Air Silencer Delete, 70mm MAF, Plasti-dipped Matte Black with a Silver Metalflake Overlay, Muffler Delete, some LED's, 30.233 MPG for high MPG average!
            2006 Jeep Wrangler 4WD (fun vehicle/backup DD) - 4.0/6spd - too many mods to list.

            Associated Panthers:
            Father's 1994 Ford Crown Victoria - Stock, 45,000 miles.
            Sold in 2007 - 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "Grandpa Special" 2 door.
            http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2128327

            Comment


              #7
              If you had a major or serious vaccum leak you would getting codes for BOTH 02 sensors. you would also be able to hear the leak pretty well, I would think.

              since you have a code for one 02 sensor, it is more likely you have faulty sensor or a wiring problem to that sensor. First thing is to inspect the harness and connector going to that sensor. Make sure it has not contacted the exhaust manifold and burned or melted.
              Last edited by 88grandmarq; 05-15-2006, 08:55 AM.
              2003 Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, Dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 9/2011
              89 Crown Victoria LX HPP -- SOLD 9/2010
              88 Grand Marquis LS - The Original -- Totaled 5/2006


              I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

              Comment


                #8
                LOL, this is kinda weird. I decided to pull the codes from my '87 Parts car just for the heck of it today. It runs fine and gets 25 mpg, but threw 19 codes out at me! And then repeated the same ones back!

                In the meantime, ditch that EFI and get yourself a carb! j/k

                Good luck with your problems, I'm no EFI guy so I'm not much help.
                1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
                1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

                GMN Box Panther History
                Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                Box Panther Production Numbers

                Comment

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