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kishy's 1983 Grand Marquis 2dr

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  • jaywish
    replied
    Even the old holley single barrel 1910's had a small inspection cover in the top of the bowl that let you measure the correct height by sticking a ruler in the hole.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    Say whatever else you may about Holley carbs, one aspect of their design that I think is just head and shoulders superior to everything else is the float height setup. Pop the screw out of the side, adjust the seat height with the external screw until fuel is just even with the bottom of the hole on the side of the carb. No measurements involved, so the specific shape or material used for the float doesn't matter.

    and yes that is a lot of gross in that carb. I have seen good results from ultrasonic cleaning, just in case you happen to have one of those. Boss stuck a Webber 2bbl from his sister's Jeep in our US cleaner and it came out noticeably shinier than what it did after soaking in the carb solvent bucket.

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  • sly
    replied
    woof. that's a lot of crud in there.

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  • kishy
    replied
    Today, I called a conveniently-located O'Reilly location in Detroit and had them order the pump (Precision M23064) from their warehouse so it'll be there for me tomorrow. Getting equivalent ones on this side of the border is a more expensive proposition, as is often the case.

    Tonight, I pulled the carb off the car and disassembled it. I tested the float in the bowl, and verified that it does successfully close the needle valve at a reasonable fuel level. I also verified there was no junk in the needle valve, and that it seemed to seal reasonably. The carb overall is definitely full of lots of goo, but these parts of the system seem to be OK, which suggests the fuel in the oil probably came from the pump. This did run very rich, but not enough to smoke at idle after the choke started opening up.



















    As it happens, someone has messed with it before, at least the idle mixture screws. The tamper-resistant caps had been pried off. The screws took just over 2.5 turns to seat.

    The throttle shaft has a small amount of wiggle at the choke linkage end. I don't think it warrants bushing it at this time, but I'm giving it consideration. It won't somehow get less loose over time.

    This carb is significantly more "friendly" to take apart than the Carter YF-A that the Ranger had. I seem to recall the float hung off the air horn/top cover part, which made for a frustrating time. This, it almost looks like I could have it run with that top cover removed.

    It's all sitting in a tub of carb cleaner. Solvent smells were kinda giving me a headache so I took a break to mow the lawn, and decided to put this all away for the night. Presumably, my metal parts will still be there in a day or two when I get back to this. I had also hoped to do some parts boxing in the garage but the headache put the brakes on that.

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  • kishy
    replied
    The new float is still floating in the jar, so that's good.

    I pulled the fuel pump off, which is a fumbly and mildly frustrating task considering how accessible the pump is. I didn't really know exactly what I was looking for but I had some goals and tried some things:

    -I sniffed the crankcase-side of the pump. It smells like gas. But so does the oil, so that doesn't tell us anything.
    -The residue inside the casting of the fuel pump where it mates to the timing cover feels more like gas than oil, but again, the oil doesn't feel right either.
    -I submerged the pump's pickup side in the jar of gas and although I could get it to dribble the occasional tiny bit of gas, I could not get it to do so consistently, nor could I get it to shoot anything with any sort of pressure behind it. I operated the pump by hand at varying speeds including speeds definitely far faster than it sees when the engine is cranking, and got basically nothing.
    -Vacuum gauge on the inlet side shows nothing, not even needle twitching.
    -Not relevant but something I tried: vacuum pump on the inlet side revealed that the check valve does work.
    -Thumb sealing over the outlet side did not detect any air or fuel or anything trying to get past it.

    This is not a scientific analysis nor the most accurate way to come to this conclusion, but I think I'm condemning the pump. I suspect the diaphragm is torn, allowing fuel entry into the crankcase. The carb extreme rich issues have existed the whole time I've had the car, but it never "made oil" until now.

    The pump is not particularly expensive, just need to get my hands on one. Carb efforts will likely commence this weekend. I really would like to drive this car at least a little bit this summer.

    There was a time when the RockAuto catalog (and, in fact, other vendors too such as AutoZone) understood that these cars could still have a carb in 83 with a 302, but they have "fixed" that. To find the pump, I now have to select an 82 with the 255. The 351 pump has a return line, the 302+255 pump does not.

    Driver power window is dead. I think I had an issue with the magnets coming unglued in this motor before, and maybe it has happened again.
    Last edited by kishy; 06-23-2022, 10:50 PM.

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  • DerekTheGreat
    replied
    Yeah, my Fury had a Holley on it. The float would indeed stick and extra gas would just pour out of the boosters. It only made oil once, lol. Hoo-whee did that ever reek. Doesn't take much for it to make the oil stink, but change it I did anyway.

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  • kishy
    replied
    Of the two, the carb and the fuel pump, the one which I have not previously messed with is the carb. It got a new fuel pump in 2013 or 14 due to an exterior leak (NAPA-branded Carter as a RockAuto closeout). That's not to say that it isn't the offender this time, but it does tell us the carb needs attention regardless of if the fuel pump also does. I will take the pump off to examine it when I get there.

    I did sniff the dipstick and it reeks of gas, so yes, there's definitely gas in the crankcase and maybe not just a tiny bit.

    Yes, the 2150 has a power valve.





    I went looking for my tote of old fuel system parts and turned up the carb kits (2 of them, both of which I previously opened to study their contents, only one of which the instructions are present for) and two floats. Both are the black plastic-like stuff (nitrophyl?).

    Thinking back to the Ranger when it had a carb, I had rebuilt the carb and installed a new float, but some time after that I ran into chronic rich and flood issues where it would just absolutely dump gas in. The new float had sunk. The float I had removed ended up going back in, problem solved. This time, I've put one of the new floats in a glass jar of some old crappy gas and will check it after a couple days to see if it's still floating. Brass floats are sold for these, and they're inexpensive, but as that is not the float design my carb is supposed to use, the instructions will probably give me an inaccurate height to set a brass float. The carb kit is a little harder to get these days, in retail channels, so I suppose it's a good thing I scooped this stuff when I did...literally almost 10 years ago.



    My carb, for history's sake, is E3AE-EA.

    This setup also has some weird skinny metal tubes connecting some weird lumpy bit that is integral to the exhaust manifold on the passenger side, to the thermactor controls, as well as an actual heat tube for the choke thermostat. I sought to identify this in the past and in retrospect, reply #2 in that thread seems to hit the nail on the head.
    Last edited by kishy; 06-20-2022, 10:54 PM.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    Qjets have issues with the solder in the bottom of the bowls rotting out and causing it to dump down the intake. Can fix it with JB-Weld.

    have seen the bad fuel pump thing too, diaphragm ruptures and pumps gas into the block.

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  • jaywish
    replied
    The quadrajet will do it also. More common with manual fuel pumps to have a gasket failure and fill the crankcase right up.

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  • gadget73
    replied
    I was also thinking carb dumping fuel problem, but it would only dump the contents of the bowl. Its not gravity fed. A stuck choke will make it run fat and "make oil" though. I remember replacing an engine in a boat that did that. Dude let it "make oil" for 3 years until it wiped out the rod bearing. It had over 2 gallons of fuel/oil mix in something that should have held 5 so it was basically 50/50. Rod bearings were completely hosed. A sniff test will tell you if thats whats going on.

    are those power valve carbs? A failed one in a Holley at least will dump loads of fuel down the carb neck.

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  • DerekTheGreat
    replied
    Ah, ethanol free. Totally on board with that as I have owned a carpitated car before. I do believe the ethanol accelerates corrosion as it is hygroscopic. The van I rekindled a year or so ago was nearly empty on both tanks, yet no rust in the factory one that I dropped to check. I think the PO had them filled with gas and then drained them before he sold it to me. No way the thing sat for twenty some years with a miniscule amount of gas in both tanks with no rust. That reminds me, the '69 Fury I once owned, that hadn't been on the road since 1981 or 1979. It's original gas tank was a rusty mess. So yeah, the van must've been left sitting full of gas.

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  • VicCrownVic
    replied
    Originally posted by kishy View Post
    ...
    *: my region, not necessarily yours, I think there are stations with ethanol-free 87 on your side of the border.
    There are station here with ethanol-free 87. Walmart at 23 Mile and M-53, just down the road from me, has ethanol-free. Not sure where else you can find it, but I know other places around here have it.

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  • jaywish
    replied
    Bad carbs can run a lot of raw fuel into the engine diluting the oil. If you still have a sense of smell pull the stick and smell the oil, you might be able to smell gas.

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  • kishy
    replied
    Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Why premium fuel?
    Carb + car that sits for years in between uses + past discovery that the tank must be stored full or it will rust + possibility that ethanol-mixed fuel might accelerate the rust (not sure that I buy that specific bit)

    The only way to buy ethanol-free fuel in this region* is to buy premium.

    *: my region, not necessarily yours, I think there are stations with ethanol-free 87 on your side of the border.
    Last edited by kishy; 06-20-2022, 08:50 AM.

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  • DerekTheGreat
    replied
    Why premium fuel?

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