1967 Mercury Cougar XR7 - Project Green Kitty

[jaywish]

maybe this has been discussed, EFI?

[SeanP]

Stock fuel pump? Sounds like a fuel issue. I’d update to an electric pump and snag a block off plate from any newer ford.

The fuel pump is stock, I believe. I haven't had any fuel issues before, but I'll keep this plan in my back pocket though.

Seems I now have a very serious vacuum leak somewhere. My idle is very high (approx 2k-3k rpm). Going to swap an old Ford 4300 on it to see if it makes a difference... that way I can at least determine if it's the carb or not.

[p71towny]

Stock fuel pump? Sounds like a fuel issue. I’d update to an electric pump and snag a block off plate from any newer ford.

[SeanP]

Vacuum leak or starving for fuel. Does it act smell rich? Could be a blown power valve.

Thanks for the input!

The power valve and vacuum leak we're on my radar - was more leaning towards power valve because it does run a bit rich and the idle is pretty good. I expect if I had a vacuum leak it would give me lots of problems there too. I'll check it anyway though since I know the base mating on my carb doesn't have the greatest reputation. That would be the first place it would probably go!

[Arquemann]

Vacuum leak or starving for fuel. Does it act smell rich? Could be a blown power valve.

[SeanP]

Ok! New starter was purchased and installed. It's a remanufactured unit from my local parts store. So far it's working great.

I'll keep and rebuild the old one to have on hand as a spare, and hopefully learn a new skill!

I took the car out with my daughter on Saturday morning and we cruised around for an hour or two, with stops along the way for a cars and coffee event and to pick up some meat from the butcher that was located approximately halfway between the cars and coffee and my house. All in all a the car did great! Still have some minor driveline vibration on deceleration and at about 70ish mph, but 1. I don't typically drive that fast anyway and 2. I have new u-joints to install and will do so at some point. Also, the front suspension needs a bit of an overhaul from general wear over time, again, I have the parts for this already, just need time and tools.

What I wasn't prepared for was the car not running right the next day. I had planned on taking the car to a car show, and my son and I went to get some gas and the car was stumbling, had no acceleration, and generally ran like total dog poo. A stark contrast to the previous day's performance.

I readjusted the timing and re-set the idle mix and idle speed. Nothing worked. I checked the plugs, the first two on each bank had massive amounts of carbon build up, which I was used to from all the hard starts flooding my cylinders with gas. I hadn't checked them since and I had installed the new starter, so figured the deposits were from before the new starter was installed. I cleaned all the plugs off and that only seems to have made things slightly worse.

Went through the steps again for timing (she likes a lot of advance) and idle mix/speed.... basically everything I had done before that made things better. Nothing.

A bit of a head scratcher. I'm going to check my fuel filter and see if some sediment may have built up from my old tank. Also going to take the carb off and do all of the checks I should have done before installing it.

Anyone think of anything else I should check?

[SeanP]

Oh I have no idea, I'm not that smart. I just assumed they're all the same and bigger ones are better.

I always thought electric fans were all the rage, but after I watched this episode of Engine Masters about the different types of fans, I changed my mind:

For budget and ease of installation, clutch types are the way to go. They don't rob horsepower like all the other fixed type of fans do. Cooling advantage though? Well, seeing as fixed fans rob horsepower and horsepower is heat, you're decreasing the load on the engine and thus decreasing the heat generated as well. Although what pops in my head is, "How much additional heat would the engine be generating from spinning the fan at idle?" Dunno! But every little bit helps.

Great video! Always lots to consider about parasitic hp loss!

Budget and time considerations mean I'm probably leaving the cooling system as is for now. It's warm, but not over hot, which, as you say re: old timers, that's how these cars used to run anyway.

I'll install the new starter over the next few days and see how things go from there.

Also have to reseal the front windshield, install exterior window trim, install the rest of my interior trim... it never ends but it keeps me out of mischief.

[DerekTheGreat]

Oh I have no idea, I'm not that smart. I just assumed they're all the same and bigger ones are better.

I always thought electric fans were all the rage, but after I watched this episode of Engine Masters about the different types of fans, I changed my mind:

For budget and ease of installation, clutch types are the way to go. They don't rob horsepower like all the other fixed type of fans do. Cooling advantage though? Well, seeing as fixed fans rob horsepower and horsepower is heat, you're decreasing the load on the engine and thus decreasing the heat generated as well. Although what pops in my head is, "How much additional heat would the engine be generating from spinning the fan at idle?" Dunno! But every little bit helps.

[SeanP]

When starting out with a completely cold engine and the thermostat shut, they might open a bit more, but I think all thermostats end up opened just enough such that coolant is constantly flowing through the radiator and the entire cooling system, but not at full flow. Probably changes during the winter and based on radiator size and what not. If you've ever tested a thermostat by putting it in a pot and heating it up, you'd see what I mean. Good ones don't "pop" open, they gradually open and open even further beyond their rated open point. Then they gradually close when the temperature decreases. There's just a little wax pellet inside which does the work. I know all the videos I've seen show them opening and closing, I just wouldn't be surprised to see them staying open slightly in situations say, like once the engine has completely warmed up and you're motivating down the highway at 70mph. Or in situations where you're overheating.

However, in regards to your car getting slightly hot at times, all the old timers I talk to say "that's how those old cars were" in regards to overheating. I know you replaced the radiator, but how does this new one's capacity compare to the old one? How's your fan and what type is it? If it's possible to upgrade to a clutch type (if it isn't already) that also moves more air, I'd look into that.

Good points! Yes, I suspect the thermostat wouldn't just pop open, but it should be full open at or around 180 (or whatever it's rated for). The scenario I was describing was how Ford designed the first cooling systems for the small blocks. By the time the 1970s came around they completely changed the radiator designs (larger capacity cross flow units.. at least that's how they are on the mustangs from 1971 - 73). Obviously this wouldn't impact how a thermostat performs, but I'm wondering if they didn't need to be rated as hot from then on. Its not a system I have so I haven't researched it much.

The radiator I installed has roughly twice the capacity of the old one. I partnered it with a shroud and a 17" flex fan that's directly driven by the belt. I have been told by lots of folks about upgrading to a clutch fan, and may do so in the future. The stock fan for small blocks with AC at the time was a 7 blade clutch fan. I imagine that would move a lot of air. The fan I have works pretty good though. Better than stock anyway.

The best system for these cars is probably the small block AC set up - 24" radiator, shroud, 7-blade clutch fan. Budget restrictions are why I went with what I did, but when I have more cash down the road, I'll probably upgrade. The 24" radiator is generally more expensive than the 20" plus it requires about $150 in mounting hardware and rubber. Then the fan and the shroud are about another $200-$300. All in all it was $400-$600 more to do the 24"... which is nearly double the cost of a good 20" aluminum radiator.

I'm a bit uneducated on the benefits of a clutch fan though. I understand it only engages at certain temperatures but to me that's only a power saver and I'm unclear as to how this offers a cooling advantage?

[DerekTheGreat]

When starting out with a completely cold engine and the thermostat shut, they might open a bit more, but I think all thermostats end up opened just enough such that coolant is constantly flowing through the radiator and the entire cooling system, but not at full flow. Probably changes during the winter and based on radiator size and what not. If you've ever tested a thermostat by putting it in a pot and heating it up, you'd see what I mean. Good ones don't "pop" open, they gradually open and open even further beyond their rated open point. Then they gradually close when the temperature decreases. There's just a little wax pellet inside which does the work. I know all the videos I've seen show them opening and closing, I just wouldn't be surprised to see them staying open slightly in situations say, like once the engine has completely warmed up and you're motivating down the highway at 70mph. Or in situations where you're overheating.

However, in regards to your car getting slightly hot at times, all the old timers I talk to say "that's how those old cars were" in regards to overheating. I know you replaced the radiator, but how does this new one's capacity compare to the old one? How's your fan and what type is it? If it's possible to upgrade to a clutch type (if it isn't already) that also moves more air, I'd look into that.

[SeanP]

Glad it can breathe a little better now.

Be sure to put a restrictor in the heater hose. I put a new heater core in and I think the high flow water pump blew it up.

Are you still running the stock gauge? Mine runs about half the gauge, which I was a little concerned about. Checked it at the thermostat and it was a cool 180. Would be good to know what it's really up to?

The pump doesn't seem to be really pushing a whole lot more volume than stock, unfortunately, so not much concern about it blowing up the heater core. One thing I did note was that my old water pump would spin pretty freely when I took it off, which is apparently a sign of wear. Compared to the new one, which took some effort to spin and did not coast like the old one, this seems like the case. So at least I have a part on there that is new and seems to be functioning properly if not fully flowing a massive increase in coolant volume. I will keep an eye on it though and if I do blow up my heater core, I'll at least know what the culprit is!

I am running stock gauges for the heater. The 289 likes more heat and I have it running about 180 (confirmed with thermometer gun), which is about 3/4 up the gauge before hitting the red zone. The heat goes up and down a little based on what's happening with the cooling cycle. How these cars are designed is the thermostat is supposed to open and close in order to give the fluid in the radiator enough time to cool and then enough time to cool the engine down when it flows in.

That's why folks who swap in a 160 thermostat run nice and cool while driving and then start overheating in stop and go traffic - the thermostat is always open because the car never cools below 160 and therefore the coolant never has a chance to sit in the radiator to cool down and just gets hotter and hotter as it goes through the engine. The cars came stock with 195 degree thermostats... get hot, thermostat opens, cold coolant in the radiator flows in and cools things down, thermostat closes, hot coolant cools down in the radiator, and repeat! Can't do that with a 160 thermostat.

Oh! And my starter officially mostly died yesterday at a car show. My wife's uncle and some car buddies managed to help get me going again, but right now she's backed up in the garage and just waiting for my next move to replace/rebuild. The fun never ends!

[Tiggie]

Glad it can breathe a little better now.

Be sure to put a restrictor in the heater hose. I put a new heater core in and I think the high flow water pump blew it up.

Are you still running the stock gauge? Mine runs about half the gauge, which I was a little concerned about. Checked it at the thermostat and it was a cool 180. Would be good to know what it's really up to?

[SeanP]

4 bbl conversion is completed and mostly successful. I have to set my timing properly still but she's running ok enough that I took her to a couple of car shows. Pulls really hard past 70mph which is about where i would start to peter out before. The intake is an Edelbrock Performer 289 paired with a 600 cfm Summit carb. Taking the old intake and gasket off was a bugger but got er done.

I'm still having stater heat soak issues which I'm working on remedying. So far the heat shield has helped a bit. I've developed a power steering return hose leak which is nice. And I'm going to install a higher flowing water pump. Temps are good but still getting warm if there's a lot of waiting in traffic. Hopefully that helps on that front.

[DerekTheGreat]

Looks nice, I love that color.

[SeanP]

Sounds like it's "just drive it" time. Nice.

Yeah we're pretty well there. Just have to do the rad install before I feel good about driving it anywhere I may have to stop in traffic. Got delayed as I needed a new fan spacer. It arrived yesterday so I'm in business now!

Plus a bunch of other stuff but I'll update as I go.

Heres some pics: