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Thread: kishy's 1985 Country Squire

  1. #781
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I dunno that I'd consider traditional sequencing as "dangerously" unclear.. I've been around them since I was a kid and was never confused as to the driver's intentions. Haven't asked around about it though. What's worse are drivers who say put their left signal on and go right.. I do not approve of brake lights that go sequentially though, that puzzles me. I've noticed factory installed sequentials do it right by me, where hitting the brake pedal illuminates all intended bulbs instantly & at once while the turn signal is the only thing which triggers sequential tail lighting.

    I've seen cars where the third brake light flashes a few times, mostly on Kias. I think it's sad that educating drivers about safe driving habits has failed and that we have to instead be defensive with distracted drivers as they are growing in numbers. I don't like looking at the flash, but I wouldn't be surprised if that method is more effective at getting people to notice and then slow down.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
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  2. #782
    fomoco panthers !
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    Has it been challenged in court? Don't know. If it is "DOT" approved then the lawsuit would have to be at the Federal level. That is the basis of writing some mechanical tickets. " Not in compliance with "Dot regulation #..." That is also the reason for parts being labeled for "off road use only" because it is a liability issue for the manufacturer knowingly selling parts to be used on a roadway, not being in compliance with DOT regulations. There is also a possibility of the owner of a vehicle modified with non DOD parts to be held totally or partially responsible for an accident. This could VOID a person's insurance coverage. This would be really looked at if the accident resulted in a fatality. Also depending upon the talent of the attorney.
    With the color of Turn signals. If you look at sequential turn signals, All I have seen on passenger vehicles are RED. By DOT regulations, Turn signals may be Red or amber. Is there a restriction for sequentials to be red only? I have not researched the DOT regulations. Those turn signals go back to at least 1965. It is possible.
    Construction equipment on the other hand, that directs traffic to modify the direction of travel, is always YELLOW. Yellow is caution. If an accident occurs at a construction site. The catch all citation would be along the lines of " failure to exercise caution, or failure to obey a traffic device.

  3. #783
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    Mustangs, several Audi models, some Mercedes, come stock with sequentials now. The rule is that the blinker must have a large segment first greater than a certain size. I've seen some that the LED line styles come on full and sequential out to cover their ass legally. Some of the earlier Audis had a large block below the sequential to cover that aspect. Since the Mustangs (and MGMs and Aero CVs that have been modified) have 3 large segments, they're already good. I don't remember the minimum size requirements though.

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    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
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  4. #784
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Maybe the point I was making has been lost.

    That point is: we only think it makes sense for things to be the way they commonly are on the basis that they are commonly that way. There is not actually some meaningful communication being done by sequencing that is not accomplished equally by just a flashing light, which is precisely the reason that a simple flashing light is permitted to be a turn signal. Highway construction arrows that are shaped like an arrow but flash together all at once have the same significance as the ones that light up in 3 sequenced segments.

    As for why I did the mod, it was for novelty and increased visibility (would not have done it for the first if not also achieving the second, and would have done it for the second even if not achieving the first). The change event from dim or unlit to bright is what most effectively captures attention rather than the presence of the light in general, so if you can find a way to add more of those change events (e.g. not just a single dim-to-bright event, but 3 of them per illumination), you in theory increase the priority of that visual signal to the driver behind you to...I dunno, maybe 300% of what it is as stock. I will note that I agree it is aesthetically (but maybe not functionally) less ideal for the brake lights to sequence and I plan to defeat that, but it isn't a priority. No further analysis required, please...we can break off to an off-topic thread to discuss the merits of lack thereof for sequential signals (not on this car, but on any) if desired.

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  5. #785
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    I think anything that gets other drivers to pay more attention to your vehicle is a good thing. Rising/falling sequentials would probably help that as well. The increased visibility is the reason I did the mod on my car. Having been hit from behind twice now, and being sued by one of them saying I didn't use my blinker and slammed my brakes (which both are false, though only the latter is proved by my dashcam video), I wanted to do something to bring even more attention to the warning lights on my car. Changing out to LED bulbs to increase brightness closer to the new stuff out there will also help.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  6. #786
    GMN Regular WagonMan's Avatar
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    I agree. When the car manufacturers started putting signal lights on mirrors it was a good way of showing when someone was turning. Now if we could get driver's to be more courteous and actually USE them! WagonMan
    1990 Colony Park
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  7. #787
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Ran a couple wires for an optional feature of the sequencing modules: cancel the sequence for brake light mode.

    The WebElectric sequencing product is actually two identical, independent modules.
    They have the following mandatory wires:
    -ground
    -12V input, also tied together with first light bulb. Bulb lights and module can see that it has received voltage.
    -12V output, for second light bulb. Module sends power to it in sequence.
    -12V output, for third light bulb. Module sends power to it in sequence.

    There is also an optional "control wire" from each module. If it is not connected, the modules run the sequence every time they get 12V on the first bulb circuit, regardless of where the 12V came from (brakes or turn signal).
    The control wire is to be wired to a part of the turn signal circuit which is hot only when the turn signal is on. This would typically be found at the indicator bulbs in the cluster. In a Panther with cornering lamps, this signal for each side can easily be accessed at the cornering lamp relays.

    If the wire is connected, and the cluster bulb is not receiving power, the module believes that you are using the brakes, and will light the 2nd and 3rd bulbs immediately (or very close to it) together with the 1st bulb.
    When the cluster bulb is receiving power, the module believes that you are using a turn signal (also applies to hazard lights), and will run the sequence.
    The sequence is auto-calibrating and after several flashes it auto-adjusts to the speed of your flasher.

    Anyway, here's a demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gotbydYg7i4
    Try to ignore the drone drifting, I did a sloppy job calibrating the compass and it was having a bad time staying still.
    Last edited by kishy; 07-02-2021 at 01:44 AM.

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  8. #788
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Super cool.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

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    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  9. #789
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Met up with a friend and his 90 Custom Cruiser:







    302/CFI absolutely mops the floor with the 307/4bbl.

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  10. #790
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    302/CFI absolutely mops the floor with the 307/4bbl.
    I've driven a couple 307s but honestly they don't feel much different to lopo CFI. I spanked an '88 Caprice Classic 305 TBI, which makes no sense but they had like a 2.5 rear end ratio... Mine's a 3.08
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  11. #791
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Great pics!

    The 307 is such a pathetic turd. They idle nice but whoo boy, about the worst engine GM ever stuck in a full size car. What were they, about 140 HP? Maybe 240ft-lbs? Turd. Only thing good I can say about them is I've never seen a dead one. So many GM cars I'd like to own & try out from the 80's, but that junky motor keeps me away.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  12. #792
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    about 140 HP? Maybe 240ft-lbs? Turd.
    Certainly the CFI is a beast with it's 140hp and 250 ft-lbs...
    I've got a couple chevy folks as friends and they all commend the 307 on reliability. Ditching the CCC and letting it breathe better is apparently good for a cruiser. From what I remember, pre-'87 engines had way better flowing heads and intake.

    What comes to shitty GM engines from the 80's, I'd say the Olds Diesel (and it's users).
    Box chevys and their BOP counterparts are awkwardly common here with the 350dx and more often the 6.2 detroit.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  13. #793
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    I have the Tow Ready 119180 module, which physically looks the same as yours, in the '98. Makes sense that the relay would stop the LED glow. I actually had LED glow with the blue LED dome light in The Ice Car, but for some reason I've never noticed it with the white LED dome light in The Scab. Both cars have the clear dome light cover which makes it easier to spot, and I probably wouldn't notice with the stock cover.

    For the power wire on the tow module mine came with a black 12ga wire. I wanted red so I ordered (through eBay) from a place that is quite local to me (walking distance from Will's house) but I'm not sure if they have an actual brick and mortar store at least I couldn't find anything on their website that mentioned a physical store. My source is Crimp Zone https://www.crimpzone.com/ and the eBay listing I bought is https://www.ebay.com/itm/223431882631.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  14. #794
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    Certainly the CFI is a beast with it's 140hp and 250 ft-lbs...
    Ahem, I'll have you know it is 150 wild, very wild horses under the hood, sir. Things get even crazier if you throw a dual exhaust into the mix, you'll find another 10 ponies on the dance floor.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  15. #795
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
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    I had two cars with an Olds 307 and didn't have any issues with either. I actually liked the fact that they were so bullet proof as I wasn't really looking for performance.

    First one was an 82 Deville. I got the engine out of a 87 Regal a friend of friend was modding. My original HT4100 blew itself up on the way to work one day (no surprise there...). I don't remember what the rear end gears were in the Deville but it moved really good off the line. There was no smog or anything other than water pump/power steering/alternator on the engine to bog it down. The other was an 87 Cadillac Brougham. That one came stock with the 307 and had all the original emissions stuff on it (including the computer controlled carb...). It was like night and day compared to the Deville. The Brougham couldn't get out of it's own way. It was pretty at least!

    Back on topic though, both wagons look great!


    '78 LTD | '87 Grand Marquis | '89 Crown Vic (RIP) | '91 Grand Marquis (RIP) | '94 Town Car (RIP) | '97 Town Car (RIP)

  16. #796
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    single best thing about the 307 / 4v is the noise they make if you flip the air cleaner lid. They work, but thats really about the most that can be said for them. That GM CCC system (the electronic q-jet) gets really shitty when the parts and vacuum lines start to fail, or when people tinker with it without knowing what they are doing. Kind of like CFI actually.


    A 350 or a 403 swaps right in. Same external dimensions. The exhaust on those Olds engines has to be the most idiotic thing I've ever seen though. Instead of a Y pipe like a normal V8, it has a crossover pipe that connects one side to the other, then a single pipe out to the rest of the exhaust so 2 banks worth of gas are flowing through one manifold. I'm not a fluid dynamics expert but just looking at the turns and the sizes of the passages that has to be a massive restriction.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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  17. #797
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    I have seen V8 flatheads with that exhaust arrangement. Same thoughts. Didn't realize it made it past depression era design. Maybe it was a cost savings thing.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  18. #798
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    Neighbour had that era olds with the 307, he loved it, from his perspective, the thing had powah! He was also somebody who saw the gas pedal as a necessary evil, full throttle was probably only done during test drives by a mechanic, but he had a v8! Different time, different demographics.

  19. #799
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    I am sure that if the 307 is enabled to get more air in and out, that it can do better than it seems to in stock form in B-bodies. I know another guy with yet another 90 Custom Cruiser, and he finds his to be gutless as well.

    But, stock-for-stock, with equal levels of factory emissions equipment removed (both have secondary air injection removed), the CFI 302 absolutely destroys the carb 307. Lots of factors involved and when carbs are in the picture there's always a tuning element, and the question of if it was messed with by the previous owner and so on. No clue on his rear gears either. But we've established that I'll beat him from a stop or any rolling speed and that's kind of fun.

    Vic, I believe the specific part number module you bought is the "kit" version, including the additional wire. I have spools of wire in 8, 10, 14, 16, and 18...the obvious missing popular choice is 12. I doubt it will be a problem. 14 should be able to supply a trailer that is fairly well-lit and still uses incandescent bulbs...maybe with a little bit of dimming...but the trailer I own currently is, and any I will own in the future will be 100% LED-illuminated. I was sort of on the fence about maybe pulling 10ga to the rear and adding a small power distribution arrangement back there, perhaps a couple 12V sockets or USB charging ports, but decided that I have enough 12V access elsewhere in the car. If I change my mind later, pulling another wire will suck a bit but not too bad. I don't need to completely remove the interior quarter panel bits to do that much.

    Starting to eye up the exhaust project for this one. Probably do it over winter (classic words I always say about projects that don't get done until the next year...)
    I want to fix the high idle, which will necessitate removing the throttle body, as the screws all broke off for that #%$&ing hockey puck.
    Try to establish that it is, in fact, running reasonably properly. Exhaust smells about right and it never smokes or anything, so I think it's probably fine, the exception being in the cold it idles weird because it's trying to stay running at what has to be 200 RPM.
    Once I have reasonable confidence it's running decently, take the destroyed cats off, put new ones on, throw H-pipe on it...and not too sure what I'm doing after that point. Mufflers that don't do a whole heck of a lot are kind of the goal on this one, I think.

    OTOH, I have a full sedan single exhaust kicking around. It could be altered to suit the needs of the wagon. But I might put that on the 2dr, since that car is sort of "the nice one" currently.

    Current: 83 GM 2dr POTM 10/2019 | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger +trlr | 86 GM | 91 GM POTM 12/2017
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  20. #800
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    You may be right about the module, the one I got is the kit that came with all the installation stuff.
    Agreed that you will probably be fine with the 14.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

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