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Thread: kishy's 1985 Country Squire

  1. #741
    Stow It! GM_Guy's Avatar
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    Don't discount rear arm bushings either. Just need one thats wallered out to cause troubles.

  2. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gtVIC View Post
    Feels good to get back to some kinda normalcy right? Tough not being physically able to do what one was so used to doing. Curious what the last round of testing will result in for your vibrations.
    Yes...I have a distinct lack of strength in my right arm still, so I was pushing my left a lot more than I normally would for this work. Anything that keeps my right arm at a fairly tight angle (say 90 degrees or less) I lose almost all strength, starts to feel kind of like TV static, and I'll drop things. I'm hoping that will improve, otherwise I'm fundamentally sort of disabled in a mild way.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    ever have the rear axle shafts out for an inspection? Yes its probably in this 19 page thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to look. Bad shafts and bearings make funny noises too.
    Yes, the axle shafts came out and the passenger side was found to have a groove worn at that time. Repair bearings were installed on both sides. In retrospect, I don't know why I did it that way instead of a normal bearing on the driver side, but it's how I did it. This was ballpark 5000km ago or so...this car has not seen a lot of mileage under me yet.

    It does occur to me that I butchered the install on the passenger side repair bearing deforming the outer seal a little bit, but I don't know that this would translate to any effect on the bearing itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by GM_Guy View Post
    Don't discount rear arm bushings either. Just need one thats wallered out to cause troubles.
    I have largely considered the rear bushings irrelevant on the basis that pre-98 uses triangulated rear arms that are permanently binding, so even if a bushing is "bad" but is still actually present, the inherent binding action will keep things more or less bushed correctly.

    Obviously in a case of extreme bushing failure that reasoning will go out the window.

    Heading outside to try some things.

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  3. #743
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    Test 1: rear axle supported by jack stands.
    A vibration of approximately the right pattern/rhythm, but gentler/less severe came on at approximately the same speed I experience when driving the car.
    Consider that the relatively firm attachment of the axle to the pavement would have had a dampening effect.

    Test 2: frame supported by jack stands with axle hanging from suspension.
    A vibration of approximately the right pattern/rhythm, but more severe came on at a lower speed than when I drive the car. It steadily gets worse as speed increases. The car shakes violently.

    It would appear the source is somewhere in between the rear U-joint and the rear tires. Considering that this car might be extremely high mileage (I don't think it is, but the odometer never really did get figured out in a concrete manner), the diff might be all sorts of sloppy. However of all my cars it actually has some of the least detectable diff slop, so it's not a glaringly obvious problem if it's in the diff. Crappy pinion bearing is a possibility but it's also entirely possible those cheap repair bearings aren't rolling as nice as they should.

    Gotta dig my tires out before it gets dark, will try to test more today still.

    Edit: nope. The garage is a disaster so my squirrel-brain decided to start working on that and well...yeah.
    Someday.
    Last edited by kishy; 03-21-2021 at 08:25 PM.

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  4. #744
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Try Test 1 or 2 without the wheels, just tighten the lugs down on the drums and see what happens.
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  5. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Try Test 1 or 2 without the wheels, just tighten the lugs down on the drums and see what happens.
    Or even remove the drums to rule those out aswell.
    Whatever mystery fault you have, you sure do have some interesting symptoms.
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  6. #746
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    Or even remove the drums to rule those out aswell.
    Whatever mystery fault you have, you sure do have some interesting symptoms.
    Dont hit the brakes.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  7. #747
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    yeah I'd leave the drums on otherwise you won't be able to stop things from spinning unless the engine is shut off. Don't want to jam it in park with everything whirling away back there.

    More vibration with the rear drooping is probably a shaft angle thing. I suppose it might be worth looking to see if the pinion angle looks really wrong, though unless its at very not-normal ride height that isn't exactly a common concern. There is also always some lash in the diff, and usually excess lash doesn't cause nasty vibrations. At most you might get some whine out of it, but sloppy pinion bearings or lack of pinion preload will do that too. I actually made a lot of that whine go away on the Conti when I did the pinion seal. I set preload to spec per the shop manual instructions. It was basically nothing, and making it tighter shut the diff up considerably.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #748
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    No further work on the vibration yet.

    Earlier in the month I took the car to OilGard to try to slow the rust. The local OilGard location was recently bought by a friend of a friend, so I wanted to give him the business and see if I like his work.



    Underbody photos are from today. Everything is still quite wet with the oil product. He used a combination of the "no drip" and the runnier stuff in various spots. Did inside the rockers and doors and the usual spots these sorts of places hit. I'm pleased. I don't intend to ever winter drive this, but at this stage even exposure to oxygen with no salt will let the rust continue doing its thing, so an oil barrier is helpful.





    Yesterday, I had the Check Oil light come on. I knew there was oil loss, I believe almost exclusively through leaks (oil pan gasket, rear main seal, light seepage from replaced valve cover gaskets). Checked the stick today and found just a tiny hint on the end of it, which I guess makes sense, since it's about a quart to bring it back to correct from that point.

    I was going to replace the valve cover gaskets (previously done with frameless rubber, next time will be PermaDry), but decided to hold off on that as I may put a nicer set of valve covers on this. Just need to sort out the appropriate grommets and hardware.

    Changed the oil. Short change interval at 3553km but if I have to add a quart at 74% of a normal interval, I'd rather just change it all.
    Flashback for a minute, when I first got the car. One of the drain plugs came out essentially stripped and I immediately replaced it. The other one was kinda iffy but in usable shape, so it went back in at that time.
    I think I've changed the oil one or two times since that, each time being increasingly concerned about that drain plug. The threads just kept stretching more and more.
    Today I decided it wasn't going back in. Grabbed one from the store. Irritatingly, the catalog looks up a 1/2"-20 plug, no pilot end, with a 7/8" head...so that's where the 7/8" heads come from on some of these.
    I played with Dorman's site a bit and found if I asked for a 2003 Dodge Dakota V6, I got a 1/2-20", pilot end, with 9/16" head. This is preferred and is what I went with.
    I did gently run a tap into both drain holes and got some nasty thread chunks to come out, so this car is one to be quite gentle with the drain plugs. Ran a die over the previously new plug and got some embedded thread chunks to GTFO.
    On the bright side, both plugs threaded in very nicely and felt pretty confidently seated when snugged down.

    Installed a sandblasted and painted battery hold-down. The one that was on the car will get the same treatment and then go on another car. These are the Group 65 hold-downs that I think came about for model year 89ish.

    Did grease front suspension. Did not grease u-joints. Failed to get grease gun to mate with the zerks due to tight space between yoke and driveshaft. Will retry with a needle adapter some other time I guess.










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  9. #749
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    I was lucky enough to find on of those hold downs years back to fit my group 65 battery. Was previously using a universal type hold down with a custom extra all thread to hold the unit in place. At the yards I go to it seems the battery brackets are normally just cut off so finding an intact one came be daunting. Same goes for the fender braces from wagons. Passengers side one is almost always cut to aid in battery removal.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  10. #750
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    Unfortunately the hold-downs are a rare find locally. I'm not sure if it's because they cut them to get them off, but they're rarely with the car. Every one of this style that I find, I grab, because I'm still not at 1:1 for them vs my cars.

    Anyone got a part number kicking around for the rubber boot that goes around the fuel filler neck in the wheel well? I could swear when I've Googled "filler neck site:grandmarq.net" in the past I've found it, but that trick isn't working for me now.

    I am aware that part is unobtainium, but would like to see if any have magically appeared on eBay.

    Edit:

    Some interesting possible options from the Mustang world, which at a glance might be able to either work, or be made to work:
    https://www.steelerubber.com/fuel-fi...eal-70-4334-39
    https://lmr.com/item/LRS-9008A/1979-...or-Rubber-Seal

    Edit again:

    That Steele Rubber part was looking an awful lot like the right piece so I poked around some more. F4ZZ-9008 (more commonly F4ZZ-9008-A) looks like the one.

    I found this, which refers to a 96 Vic, https://www.fordpartsalberta.ca/v-19...rical--senders
    #5 looks to be the part in question which is the F4ZZ-9008-A item, which is what the Steele Rubber part is a new reproduction of. Of course there are old stock ones and other options out there too.

    Being that I don't know the aero years particularly well I also checked the tank filler neck seal and it appears a 96 uses the same one as a box (e.g. Dorman 577502 and similar), which should mean that the "upper" seal fits the filler neck size. At least probably. The filler neck-to-tank seal is a different Ford part number for a Box vs an Aero, despite the replacement brands using the same for both. Anyone have an Aero filler neck hanging around to take an OD measurement of?
    Last edited by kishy; 05-17-2021 at 04:47 PM.

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  11. #751
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    D1az-9008-a

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    D1az-9008-a
    Thank you sir!

    If we trust these guys: https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts...az-9008-a.html

    It looks like the F4 part superseded the D1 part, so with any luck it is actually equivalent.

    Now to find one for cheap enough to go in a cheap car...

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  13. #753
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    D1AZ-9008-A Replaced by the F4ZZ you referenced. I need one in the 88 and probably the 90 as well. 88 leaked and caused the drivers side lower quarter to rot (again).
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  14. #754
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    my books end at '89 so any supercedes after that point I don't know about. It shows that D1 part for 80-89 for every Panther car though. Fox stuff is different

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #755
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I stopped running my '88 TC in the winter ages ago, yet the Krown can still be seen under the car. I'm definitely happy it's there and I suspect it's doing a good job of keeping surface rust from setting in. I still like to peer in the wheel wells at times to take in the black frame rails...
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  16. #756
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    The question about the filler neck rubber thingy came about from a strong fuel smell in the car after a right hand turn, only when the tank is full. I could not identify any external fuel leak (e.g. under the car), and still don't know exactly where it comes from. I will find the plastic bucket thing around the fuel cap is wet with gas after this happens, and it seems like it might even be the gas cap seal, but I also don't see how. The seal is intact and the cap seals tightlyish. It may be that there's a pinhole through the filler neck somewhere right under the lip at the top...need to pull it to inspect better. But anyway, that issue is what reminded me the seal is trashed. I don't think it will lessen the smell nor will it fix the problem, just came up because I was mentally exploding the diagram of that part of the car.

    As for Krown, I was happy with the product. I was happy with the first application. I was not happy with the second. Both done at Santing's OK Tire, but done by different guys. Both on the '91. Two years apart. First guy seemed invested and really wanted to get the whole car covered. Spent a fair bit of time on it, I'd guesstimate almost an hour. And this was an undercoated car as it was. Second guy just hit a couple quick touch up spots, maybe 15 mins tops. I don't like that I paid the same rate for both of those visits. As far as I'm concerned the stuff sprayed in concealed spots like drilled rocker holes is not going to go anywhere, so why should I pay for the professional service on a repeat? I can buy any number of off-the-shelf runny oilspray products that may work approximately the same for the areas I can get to myself...but, I decided I'd give OilGard a shot and this car will likely get redone there in the future. If it sees a lot of rainy weather, it may go again next year, or it may go in two...or maybe 3. The Ranger is definitely going there though, it's pretty far gone but I can at least try to keep it from getting too much worse.

    Another reply will follow.

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  17. #757
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Yesterday, a holiday (Victoria Day), I borrowed a friend's chainsaw and cut a bunch of limbs off the tree in the back yard. It's a red horse chestnut tree and flowers beautifully, but it is entirely too large for the back yard...at some point it will have to go, but for now I'll just keep trimming it so it's barely manageable. It is often starved for water and I think I can thank that problem for being why it produces almost no actual horse chestnuts.

    I stuffed all the trimmed bits into the Ranger Trailer, and then today after work hauled the trailer with the wagon to the city's drop off point for yard waste. I had considered chipping them, and borrowed a friend's chipper, but then decided the time investment was just not something I was into considering I had no use in mind for the chips. The city will mulch them and then makes the mulch available to residents inexpensively, so that's something at least.



    I am, of course, aware that the AOD will be happier with additional cooling. When I got home, I installed one of the coolers I bought a while back. I am aware the parallel-flow ones cool better, but I figured this is better than nothing. I didn't much care for the idea of using the zip-tie-style mounting thingies on the factory condenser so I made a mount with plumbing pipe hanger strap. I believe the holes I used will preclude me from properly mounting a factory power steering cooler, but that can just go somewhere else when the time comes.

    I replaced the O-rings in each of the quick-connects. Kind of tedious but not too hard. Time will tell if I bought O-rings that last. No leaks yet though.







    Where the lines run past the radiator, each is inside of an old section of heater hose to protect against damage.



    Last edited by kishy; 05-25-2021 at 11:00 PM.

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  18. #758
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    for what they are sealing I suspect plain black nitrile or green HNBR will work fine. I use the green ones for most things, purely because I have a kit of them and they will do anything a plain nitrile O ring will do.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #759
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    for what they are sealing I suspect plain black nitrile or green HNBR will work fine. I use the green ones for most things, purely because I have a kit of them and they will do anything a plain nitrile O ring will do.
    These are "nitrile butadiene rubber (NBR)", which I had determined would probably be suitable before I bought the big kit of them.

    The kit is the combination version of https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07B32WS9K
    I used 5/16 x 1/16 O-rings for this job. I would maybe feel a tiny little bit better about a subtly thicker O-ring, but it's also possible this is the exactly correct size. The hardened ones that came out were not much of a reference point. I'm not sure if they were originally produced to be square-cut, but they sure look like it after 30 years.

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  20. #760
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kishy View Post
    ...As for Krown, I was happy with the product. I was happy with the first application. I was not happy with the second. Both done at Santing's OK Tire, but done by different guys. Both on the '91. Two years apart. First guy seemed invested and really wanted to get the whole car covered. Spent a fair bit of time on it, I'd guesstimate almost an hour. And this was an undercoated car as it was. Second guy just hit a couple quick touch up spots, maybe 15 mins tops. I don't like that I paid the same rate for both of those visits. As far as I'm concerned the stuff sprayed in concealed spots like drilled rocker holes is not going to go anywhere, so why should I pay for the professional service on a repeat? I can buy any number of off-the-shelf runny oilspray products that may work approximately the same for the areas I can get to myself...but, I decided I'd give OilGard a shot and this car will likely get redone there in the future. If it sees a lot of rainy weather, it may go again next year, or it may go in two...or maybe 3. The Ranger is definitely going there though, it's pretty far gone but I can at least try to keep it from getting too much worse.

    Another reply will follow.
    Sorry to hear about Santing's. I wasn't happy with my last applications. They busted my Town Car's taillight, well cracked it. And then it's as you noticed, you don't get what you pay for. I already went over my cars once I got them back but it's appalling with how much they missed. Have the same problem with the place I use in St. Clair, at least they sent me tons of free stuff. If you can get it, Fluid Film is pretty damn good. It's what I use for touch-ups and when going over areas that the applicators miss. Check out Repair Geek's videos on You Tube. He's got some good ones regarding a myriad of rust prevention products. Fluid film turns out to be one of the best IMO, doesn't rinse off easily and does a much better job sticking around and thwarting corrosion.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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