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Thread: My 79 Marquis

  1. #81
    GMN Regular slack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainemantom View Post
    I would not splice brake lines. In some States, that is not legal.
    Interesting, I didn't know that. I think every vehicle I own at this point has patched brake lines thanks to road salt.

  2. #82
    Member Grand1's Avatar
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    Well the proportional valve is definely toast. Was able to get the fuel nut off the broken line and plug it for the time being. It has a decent leak from another fitting now. Wagon man doesnt have any in stock right now, so I will be learning shortly if the Speedway valve will work. Since all the lines are gonna be redone, might as well and replace the master cylinder.....which leaves the brake booster as literally the last part not be replaced. The positive through all of this is that it has been baptism by fire about brakes, learned alot.



    1978 Grand Marquis 460 2door "Blue Bomber"

    1987 LTD Crown Vic 351w aka the "MI Mountie"

    1989 Colony Park ....Marge still lives!

    1979 Marquis creamy goodness

  3. #83
    fomoco panthers !
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    I always change the vacuum booster with the master cylinder.Parts have to have a lifetime warranty though. It saves doing the job twice. I can keep my eye out for a valve. If you have a part number on it, post it. I am sure you could get one via Car-part.com. out west. until you can get a new one.

  4. #84
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by slack View Post
    Interesting, I didn't know that. I think every vehicle I own at this point has patched brake lines thanks to road salt.
    I am fairly sure the legality issue applies specifically to compression fittings as a brake line repair, which I believe is considered to be not legal everywhere that regulations exist surrounding the topic at all.

    If you were to repair a brake line by flaring the end and using a union, there is no functional deficiency that I can imagine unless the line that was left in place was iffy...as for legality, I'm not so sure. It would pass a safety here and Ontario is really picky about stuff, regulating down to the number of drips of a particular diameter over a fixed amount of time that are allowable leaks for various fluids...(easily flammable ones such as power steering allow zero leak of any amount over any time, brake fluid of course also allows no leak over any amount of time).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand1 View Post
    master cylinder
    If you are replacing the master, you can take care of this problem by doing what I did with my wagon. Go to a newer master cylinder from one of the years that still has disc/drum, but which does not have the frame-mounted demonic garbage valve. I did that specifically to delete the valve. I'll dig for the parts combo I used. If you're hellbent on keeping the OE design I have at least one of those valves kicking around somewhere but I'd really suggest just not doing that.
    Last edited by kishy; 06-04-2021 at 11:13 PM.

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  5. #85
    Member Grand1's Avatar
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    Yeah, thanks for the advice. I did purchase a booster and master might as well. I gave Summit a call and this universal valve will work....we shall see.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...QaApVXEALw_wcB

    Damn kish, just saw your post.... I have a master cylinder by raybestos( mc39531 part number ) sitting in my garage and actually was looking at replacing it as they look damn similar .... but crossed reffed the part number and didnt see the 79 listed, I deep sixed the idea.

    ....and yes I exercised that demon valve with four letter words
    Last edited by Grand1; 06-05-2021 at 12:05 AM.



    1978 Grand Marquis 460 2door "Blue Bomber"

    1987 LTD Crown Vic 351w aka the "MI Mountie"

    1989 Colony Park ....Marge still lives!

    1979 Marquis creamy goodness

  6. #86
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand1 View Post
    Damn kish, just saw your post.... I have a master cylinder by raybestos( mc39531 part number ) sitting in my garage and actually was looking at replacing it as they look damn similar .... but crossed reffed the part number and didnt see the 79 listed, I deep sixed the idea.

    ....and yes I exercised that demon valve with four letter words
    Ah, well...fixing it "properly" isn't a bad thing.

    For reference if it comes up again, the master I used was an Autospecialty M81052, which is no longer sold.
    If you look up a '91 Grand Marquis, you will find options for "police" or "HD" and also for not police or HD. You also find options for including a reservoir or not; for a retrofit like this, you need the reservoir as you have no existing one to swap over.
    Some of them have a total of two outlets, some of them have a total of three outlets. There is not much consistency, some brands the police one is 2 ports, some brands the non-police one is 2 ports. If you get the 2 port one, you have to use an external splitter (nothing fancy, just turns one line into two) for the front brakes. If you get the 3 port one, you run both front brakes directly to the master. The rear will require a "proportioning" or "residual pressure" valve (depends who you ask as to what it's called) which threads in directly; I got mine from a junkyard as the new ones didn't come with it.

    You also need to junkyard (or otherwise) source the low fluid level sensor which clips into the master and make a minor wiring connection to attach that sensor to the wiring that used to go to the switch on the valve. Not a big deal really.

    These masters use metric threads for the flare nuts and bubble flares. On the late boxes that actually came with these things, it's a little piece of trivia...the other ends of the brake lines use double flares and SAE fittings, but the master cylinder end is all metric. Of course, 3/8 and M10 are close enough that someone not paying attention can put a 3/8 flare nut into the M10 hole, and if you crank it down tight enough, the double flare will seal by digging into the bubble flare seat, so it ends up working even though it shouldn't. In my relatively earlier days of wrenching I did exactly this thing to my 91.
    Last edited by kishy; 06-05-2021 at 12:44 AM.

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  7. #87
    fomoco panthers !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand1 View Post
    Well the proportional valve is definely toast. Was able to get the fuel nut off the broken line and plug it for the time being. It has a decent leak from another fitting now. Wagon man doesnt have any in stock right now, so I will be learning shortly if the Speedway valve will work. Since all the lines are gonna be redone, might as well and replace the master cylinder.....which leaves the brake booster as literally the last part not be replaced. The positive through all of this is that it has been baptism by fire about brakes, learned alot.
    I have located a nos proportioning valve. You have a pm.

  8. #88
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    Thanks!

    And finally some progress.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    1978 Grand Marquis 460 2door "Blue Bomber"

    1987 LTD Crown Vic 351w aka the "MI Mountie"

    1989 Colony Park ....Marge still lives!

    1979 Marquis creamy goodness

  9. #89
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I'm late to the party here but one of the methods I use to remove brake lines and their fitting is to cut the line right at the fitting and then use a six point socket on it. This is my go-to method for any line I intend on replacing. I might try a line wrench, but if there's even a wiff of rust & decades, round-off is nearly guaranteed.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  10. #90
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    So bad lock ring? O ring got bunched?
    Or fuel tank sending unit decayed around the edges? Drips from the very bottom. Guess I will drop it.

    Anyone know a good source for new fuel tank sending units? Float is toast in this one.

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    Last edited by Grand1; Yesterday at 08:25 PM.



    1978 Grand Marquis 460 2door "Blue Bomber"

    1987 LTD Crown Vic 351w aka the "MI Mountie"

    1989 Colony Park ....Marge still lives!

    1979 Marquis creamy goodness

  11. #91
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Remind me and I'll bring you a good float next weekend.
    Get some Permatex Motoseal for the sender gasket, that's what we ended up using when we replaced the pump/sender hanger assembly on The Ice Car.
    Kishy had found a source for sending units but I'm not sure if it was right for carb application.

    That sender is doable without dropping the tank.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning sometime in the 2020s, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  12. #92
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    Thanks Vic!
    I will get ahold of Kishy about the sending unit. Looking forward to the Repairathon.

  13. #93
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    From this thread
    http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...ding-Unit-Carb
    you can probably track a sending unit down. Part numbers sprinkled throughout that thread.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning sometime in the 2020s, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  14. #94
    all the CFI are belong to me
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    From where the gas seems to be coming from, it's hard to be sure what's wrong on yours. It looks from that pic like the tank failed and it's leaking from around where the sender goes, but very likely it isn't the tank, and it's either the gasket or the sending unit has a hole through it like mine does. With the rust on yours, it is very likely you have the problem I have, and probably a new sending unit is the right answer...but diagnose it further before assuming that.

    Be warned though, if it's like mine, disturbing it might reveal more failures as rust chunks break off. You should have access to a secondary vehicle before messing further with this, or get all the possible "what if" parts on-hand first. Consider that if you go in assuming it's just the gasket, and then during removal the fuel line nipple breaks off, and you discover it wasn't the gasket at all but instead a tiny rust hole through the metal plate...you're going to have a bad time.

    I will suggest that you probably need to pull the sending unit to examine exactly where the leak is. It might be, for example, coming through around the black plastic bit where the connector plugs in.
    You will need to get the fuel level down lower and my approach to this is to drain it into gas cans via the fuel line in the engine bay. I use an old EFI fuel pump to do this but manual siphoning would work...ugh, gross.

    You will want a new gasket and probably lock ring on hand, and it would also be smart to have new fuel line to replace the short length that attaches to the sending unit, as removing it will likely reveal it is in bad aged condition. As your float is bad, you also want a float on hand as well. Sounds like Vic has you taken care of for that. I've taken a liking to the plastic floats (of the exact same shape and dimensions as original) which are usually marketed towards Jeep guys...lots of vehicles used the same float as us for decades.

    Yes, that thread Vic linked is the repository of all my knowledge about the carb sending units. You need the carb-specific variant because the EFI ones (even CFI) do not have the pickup tube and fuel line fitting, they are actually built the same but the EFI ones have the tube cut short and plugged so it doesn't have an open end through the mounting plate.

    Lock Ring:
    Ford C0AZ-9A307-B (likely does not include gasket if it is original Ford part)
    Spectra Premium LO03 (that is letters LO, numbers 03)(does include gasket)
    Carter TLR3 (does include gasket)
    Dorman 579-003 (does include gasket)

    Gasket alone is Ford C0AF-9276-A, but if ordering from a dealer, it may only be available in a 10-pack now, and it also may be very old stock. If you do not have the proper lock ring wrench (I might be the only person on earth who has it), you should get a new lock ring.

    Float:
    The plastic one I've used (successfully for a couple years now) is Omix-ADA part number 17729.01
    If installing a used brass float I would suggest putting it fully submerged in gas for a bit and making sure no air bubbles come out of it anywhere, if any do, it is going to sink over time.

    The pickup strainer/filter inside the tank on the end of the pickup tube is D1FZ-9A011-A. Reproductions of this are available. If you find a version with a different number, it might be the 3/8" version...you need the 5/16".
    Last edited by kishy; Today at 01:11 PM.

    Current: 83 GM 2dr POTM 10/2019 | 84 TC POTM 1/2017 & 4/2019 | 85 CS | 85 Ranger +trlr | 86 GM | 91 GM POTM 12/2017
    Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC
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