help with 351w swap

[meanmercn]

oh yea what should i do about the high pressure intake pump? since the mustang aftermarket insert doesn't work should i leave the high pressure pump in place and use a bypass regulator or is there an insert i can use with an aftermarket electric fuel pump for carb applications?

[jayh]

the easiest route would probably be see if a sending unit from an early 80's crown vic that is carb'd will go in or perhaps swap tanks and sending unit to an early tank from a carb'd car

[1980c10]

You can also pull your stock set up out of the tank, remove the fuel pump, and replace the pump with a piece of tubing the same length as the pump. The cut the stock line in half in between the fuel filter and the engine and stick a low pressure electric pump in line.

Glad to hear your doing the brakes most people slap on some big wheels, and forget about that part lol.

[hemihotrod402]

Glad to hear your doing the brakes most people slap on some big wheels, and forget about that part lol.

x2

May I also suggest doing a rear disc swap as well? They perform better and look nicer behind those wheels lol

[Mercracer]

None of the combinations you listed has anyting to do with a mild cam and a 4000lb car.

I stand by my statement that none of the 3 cars likely had an ideal combination. I will use the history of NMRA Factory Stock class to back up this statement.
I will also use my personal time slips of high 12s with untouched (Stage 0) GT40P heads and an AOD in my 91 Mustang (~3300lbs with me in it) to state this.

AODstangs 100%stock run low 15's here, with every bolton, low 14's

Even if those are SN95s, you grow sloooww Mustangs around there. Box stock 3.55 geared HPP Vics around here run 15s around here.
The only Automatic Mustangs running low 15s box stock around here are the 96-98 4.6 cars,.
I was in the 13s with only gears and exhaust on my box stock 91LX. The factory 2.73s made it run high 14s. When I added an Explorer intake I ran mid 13s. GT40P heads and a cam put me in the high 12s.

I have far more experience with Mustangs and Ford/Mercurys than just a single local track. I have been around long enough to see watch the Mustang go from 2V to 4V to CFI to SFI. More recently (11ish years ago) I was there for the birth of the 1st World Ford Challenge and then the NMRA. My Factory Stock competitor number is less than 70.
5.0 Mustangs with "every bolt on" are capable of running high 11s. The first 11 second Factory Stock car was an AOD Automatic I believe. You must run an untouched factory HO cam and may not port the heads or intake.
I will not even begin to try and explain to you how those combinations are not Apples to Apples. WTF is a "Stage 5 Porting"?
I will explain to you what it is. That is simply marketing BS by someone who wants the person purchasing their product to believe that it is extra super special. Nothing more.
"Stage 3 Ported" E7s is just plain silly although many places use the "Stage 1, Stage 2 and Stage 3 nomenclature. Unless you have flow numbers for the 3 sets of heads, the "Stage" rating is useless.
Peak HP numbers are also useless. No one ever won a drag race with a peak HP number. Show me the area under the curve for all 3 engines and I will show you that they are not apples to apples.

[Mercracer]

as far as the converter hurting performance from a 40mph press, in my personal experiences, you are wrong. there is no other way to put it.I went from a 5spd to c4 with 3800stall.

a loosened up stock converter is a piece of crap, while it might seem cheap, they are actually a waste of money. you are correct, this is not a "dick" contest. my suggestions would be to become a member at www.clickclickracing.com and learn more about performance AOD setups. the 2 big gurus over there are both lincoln markvii guys, so you cant say it only applies to mustangs .

Your application was not the same as the proposed application here. A small cam in a heavy car does not need nor can it take advantage of a 3800RPM stall converter. Nobody has suggested a "loosened up stock" converter.
If you want to learn more about AOD trannys and serious drag racing, I suggest you give Rich Groh a phone call..... If the gang over at click click are not drawing from NMRA Factory Stock and Pure Street ("Stage 3" ported 289 heads running 10s NA) experience, the knowledge pool is lacking....
Your combo, your friends' combo, other high end combos have zero relevancy to this thread which is about a mild build in a 4000 lb car dry weight. A 3500+ converter should not be on the menu for this build....
Going by what was said, this will not be a dedicated race car. He did not post... "Please suggest a combo with shitty street manners because I can tolerate shitty street manners"....
I am not claiming to be an AOD expert, but I am neither ignorant not oblivious to the benefits of a higher stall converter. If you want to talk about highly modified combinations and 3500-4500RPM stalls, let's start another thread. This thread is dedicated to a mild 351W build and a street car that will not see any track time according to the OP.

[1980c10]

I never suggest a stall over 3k so I have no idea where you came up with us telling him to run. 3500-3800 stall. Also tell me one thing in the above combo that I listed that makes it a high strung motor and not a mild combo. Everything I listed has an advertised power band of 1500 to 5500. Also a 3k stall behind the combo I listed might stall out to 2500 on the foot brake. It's about as mild of a combo as you can get. If you don't consider it mild a bone stock engine must be what you consider mild.

Your not adding anything to this thread, just arguing. Give the guy a combo and let him choose for himself which he wants to. I don't know what you are trying to do. Your not going to change my views or opinions, and I am obviously not going to change yours. So just help this guy out, he obviously knows what he wants out of the car. Make some suggestions and he can take a little bit from each of us and build what he wants. THE END

[Mustang Bob]

first of all a double pumper carb doesnt burn any more gas than a vac sec, the front half of both carbs are exactly the same, my 12 sec mustang with a double pumper gets 22mpg with no overdrive it has a c-4. second, in all this converter talk the one thing everone here is forgetting is stall speed is dependent on torque output (my 427"w flashes my stock furnace brazed converter @ 3000rpm) the problem with a high stall converter in an aod is the big rpm drop in 3rd gear, if you have enough torque to pull 3rd gear you don't need a high stall but you do need a good converter,a one piece input shaft is the best way to go but its a little pricey. also the stock fuel pump will not keep up with a high performance carbureted engine, pull the pump out put a tube in place of it and run a good carb spec pump electric or mechanical.

[Mustang Bob]

oh yea i stand by my minnimum of a 4.10 with 4.56s and a 28" tire reg aod im at 2500rpm at 70 mph if you think thats too much rpm you never drove a perfomance car without overdrive

[Mercracer]

I never suggest a stall over 3k so I have no idea where you came up with us telling him to run. 3500-3800 stall. Also tell me one thing in the above combo that I listed that makes it a high strung motor and not a mild combo.

I replied seperately to you and to jayh. To you I said that he does not need a 3K stall and that it may hurt his street drivebility/performance. It is up to him to decide what manners his car should have and he should know what he is getting with each choice. I had 351CJ powered cars with a factory stall less than 2K. They performed just fine. I have had stalls at both ends of the spectrum. From a too low stock one to a 4500RPM $1K race converter. I tend to be conservative in my current builds as I see what a conservative build can give for excellent performance.
If I cross posted to you when I was addressing jayh, I appologize. I tried to keep my replies seperate.

[Mercracer]

oh yea i stand by my minnimum of a 4.10 with 4.56s and a 28" tire reg aod im at 2500rpm at 70 mph if you think thats too much rpm you never drove a perfomance car without overdrive

Been there, done that, learned from my mistakes and moved forward.... Try 4.33 gears with no overdrive some time on the interstate....:smirk:
Once the clutch is locked up the converter is out of the picture. Nobody said anything until your post about RPMs down the highway. 4.10s is more gear than he needs with his proposed cam and combo. I stand by that.

[Mercracer]

my 12 sec mustang with a double pumper gets 22mpg with no overdrive it has a c-4. .

I doubt that, but this is not a flame fest and this is the tech forum so that is all I am going to say about that.

[Mustang Bob]

doubt it all you want, its called tuning, and ive done 4.88s and a 4 speed behind a big block, that sucked on the highway. this guys got 32" tires and overdrive though.

[Mercracer]

ok this car isn't ever if ever see any track time. im building a car for show and jayh is right i will be running 255/30-26 tires that come out around 32". i know this isn't everybodys thing and i appreciate that cause everyones ideas are different. i want the car to be driveable cause i'd like to be able to drive it to and from shows. i live near greensboro nc and do a mix of city and highway driving so im trying to find a comfortable set up between the two. my younger brother has a 98 civillian crown vic with full 2.5" duals no crossover or headers and 3.73's no track lok with 305/30-26 tires on it 33.7" i believe and it drives very well no problems hittin the top speed governer and out running alot of cars on the highway and he drive it daily. i set my benchmark to that but i want to my merc to be a lil more sound i guess cause his transmission isn't happy at all its all stock.

Back on track addressing the OP and no more hijacks...
What is your budget? The last thing you need to spend money on is your converter. Generally, the higher the stall, the more the $$. If you are seriously going to run 32" tall tires, then go for the 4.10 gears and once you are ready to spend the money go for the 3000rpm stall lockup converter. You are more interested in show than go and the higher stall will "feel" more snappy on the street yet the lockup will allow it to act stock on the highway.

[1980c10]

Thank you