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    #1

    Roller Rockers ?

    I had been looking online about roller rockers. Then I see a few folks mentioning them lately so I thought I would post up for some discussion.

    It seems to me that it is a performance mod with no downside but price. Better HP and fuel economy.
    Right?

    Then there is the ratio. 1.6 or 1.7 I guess 1.7 opens the valves a bit more.

    If you used a full roller 1.7 as opposed to a full roller 1.6:

    what would happen with a stock lopo with the 1.7?

    what would happen with a lopo with ho intake with 1.7?

    What would happen with a stock ho with 1.7?

    What would happen with a ho plus explorer intake with 1.7?

    What I mean by "what would happen" is what would happen to;
    performance, fuel economy, idle, drive-ability, emissions?

    Did I miss anything?
    Last edited by jaywish; 02-24-2013, 08:43 PM.
    03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi Carrier, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    12 Escape Limited V6 AWD, 225/65R17 Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Winter 235/70-16 Conti Viking Contact7 Mods>Beamtech LED headlight bulbs, Husky floor liners
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    #2
    They just ran a segment on Horsepower TV last week on this it was a general motors engine,they did nothing else but replace the stamped steel stock with cast rollers for a peek gain of 14hp.
    1989 crown Vic daily driver 165k and counting!
    1987 MGM 49xxx mi awaiting light resto

    Comment

      #3
      many of us here run HO with cobra 1.7 roller rockers, im sure someone has tried stock lopo with 1.7s at some point.
      89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

      Comment

        #4
        At least 2 of us on here have 1.7's on a lopo. If your expecting some sort of huge gain, or even a noticeable gain, don't get your hopes up. You open the valve up a touch more letting a bit more air in, and you free up some friction with roller rockers. Remeber, every little bit helps.
        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

        Comment

          #5
          Every little bit helps. My pops is always doubting what I do, but I tell him this all the time. He also said my car was not a show car......
          Last edited by 87gtVIC; 02-25-2013, 08:58 PM.
          ~David~

          My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
          My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

          Originally posted by ootdega
          My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

          Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
          But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

          Originally posted by gadget73
          my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.



          ​

          Comment

            #6
            Well I guess if we are talking the Coliseum then none of our cars are show cars but other than that I think it is pretty amazing that the folks here turn out vehicles of this type in the condition they do, the Brown Blob certainly included.
            03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
            02 SL500 Silver Arrow
            08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi Carrier, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
            12 Escape Limited V6 AWD, 225/65R17 Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Winter 235/70-16 Conti Viking Contact7 Mods>Beamtech LED headlight bulbs, Husky floor liners

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
              Every little bit helps. My pops is always doubting what I do, but I tell him this all the time. He also said my car was not a show car......
              we aren't looking to win the Ridler either. So for small local style stuff... it is definitely show worthy. so there!

              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
              Originally posted by gadget73
              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
              Originally posted by dmccaig
              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

              Comment

                #8
                Dear Panthers,

                I only know two ways of improving performance: (a) make the engine more efficient (b) arrange to burn more (or hotter) fuel in the engine.

                Unlike (b) , a more efficient engine produces not only more power but better fuel economy.

                Roller rockers are classic (a). Since I've never run my lopo on a dynamometer, I don't know what hp has been added by the small incremental (a) fixes I've done. Fuel economy is demonstrably improved from 18-19 mpg to 20-21.

                Donald

                Comment

                  #9
                  I believe you will also get an infinitesimal increase in duration.



                  87 Ford LTD Crown Victoria Country Squire Station Wagon. 4.10's, Repacked Trac Loc, Boxed LCA's, Explorer Intake, 65mm T-body, 'Stang Cam, 'Stang Air tube, K&N, GT-40X Heads, 1" Spacer, 1 5/8 BBK's, 2.5" Pypes X-pipe w/high flow cats, Single Chamber Thunderbolts, B&M 'vertor, Po-lice Swaybars.

                  91 Mercury Grand Marquis Colony Park Station Wagon. K-Code, 4.10's, Repacked Trac Loc, MK VII LSC Engine, 'Stang Upper Intake, Stang Air Tube, K&N, 65 mm T-Body, 'Stang Headers, 'Stang Cat Pipe,'Stang Torque Convertor, 2 Chamber Thunderbolts.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by mitymerc View Post
                    I believe you will also get an infinitesimal increase in duration.
                    Yes you will, duration at .050 will increase and advertised duration(@ .006") will increase very slightly...and they are a little noisy...I ordered Crane 1.7rr's from Summit and they price matched Mustangs unlimited which was like $218(not quite a year ago)...the Crane 1.7rr's are much cheaper than the Ford Racing pieces...the only difference...the box...the Crane 1.7rr's have the '93 Cobra part number on them. I think they're well worth the money...especially if you currently have leaky valve cover gaskets!
                    '85 CV coupe- 351W, T5-Z, FAST Ez-Efi, shorty headers, 2.5" duals with knock off flowmasters, 2.5" Impala tails, seriously worked GT-40 irons, Comp 265DEH cam, 1.7rr's, Mallory HyFire 6A, Taylor ThunderVolt 50 10.4mm wires, 75mm t/b, 3G alt swap, 140mph PI speedo, PI rear sway bar, '00 PI booster/MC, 95-97 front spindles, '99 front hub bearings/brakes, '92-'94 front upper control arms/ball-joints, 3.73's with rebuilt traction-lok, '09 PI rear disc swap, '96 Mustang GT wheels with 235/55R17's.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by sick88tbird View Post
                      Yes you will, duration at .050 will increase and advertised duration(@ .006") will increase very slightly...and they are a little noisy...I ordered Crane 1.7rr's from Summit and they price matched Mustangs unlimited which was like $218(not quite a year ago)...the Crane 1.7rr's are much cheaper than the Ford Racing pieces...the only difference...the box...the Crane 1.7rr's have the '93 Cobra part number on them. I think they're well worth the money...especially if you currently have leaky valve cover gaskets!
                      There's actually 2 style of the Crane 1.7'srr with the Ford part #. Slight differences between the 2. I have a set of each. I also never had any noise issues, besides for one of the sets I have has a noisy rocker. The other 31 are dead silent.
                      2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                      2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                      2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                      1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                      Comment

                        #12
                        FWIW, here's my experience from nerding out on the Engine Analyzer Pro (think dyno sim on steroids):


                        other than the slight decrease in wear and friction from roller or roller tip rocks, I never saw more than a 2hp increase on a reasonably stock build UNLESS you were running way too small a cam, like the lopo cam with ported heads and good exhaust. For my own short-term build (stock heads, ported truck intake, 600cfm carb, stock 206/218 444 lift cam) I saw (simulated) a 1-1.5 hp loss in low rpm and 2hp gain in the high rpm. Whether I cut any time from my (simulated) 1/4 mile was down to shift points, stall, etc. It might be worthwhile on a lopo, or for getting a little extra RPM if you insist on stock heads, but I don't think 1.7 rockers necessarily gain you in every, or even most, combinations.

                        You don't gain any overlap, but otherwise you gain all the aspects of a larger cam. Also keep in mind that valve float (but I don't think the related issue of lifter pump-up) may happen earlier if you go 1.7 ratio with the same springs.
                        Last edited by johnunit; 03-07-2013, 10:08 PM.

                        85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                        160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                        waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                        06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                        Comment

                          #13
                          It sounds like going to a roller rocker is a big waste of $ on an almost stock motor. 1.6 or 1.7 it makes no practical difference.

                          That is too bad if it got 10hp then it would have been worth it. The fuel economy would have paid for itself after a few years. Spending $60 a week on gas, maybe saving 2% in fuel usage. That might save $1.20 a week or so. So in less than 3 years you would be in the black and have some free hp to boot.

                          At 1 or 2 hp cumulative HP increase from stock rockers. figure that might save 0.4% in fuel usage. That might save $0.25 a week or some number like that. So in 15 years it would pay for itself.

                          I hope I have this wrong as it would be nice to find something that would pay for itself and give us just a little more fun in the bargain.
                          03 Marauder DPB, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, U-Haul Trans Pan, Blue Fuzzy Dice
                          02 SL500 Silver Arrow
                          08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated BFG G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi Carrier, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Two part Sun Visors, B&M Trans drain Plug, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
                          12 Escape Limited V6 AWD, 225/65R17 Vredestein Quatrac Pro, Winter 235/70-16 Conti Viking Contact7 Mods>Beamtech LED headlight bulbs, Husky floor liners

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by jaywish View Post
                            It sounds like going to a roller rocker is a big waste of $ on an almost stock motor. 1.6 or 1.7 it makes no practical difference.

                            That is too bad if it got 10hp then it would have been worth it. The fuel economy would have paid for itself after a few years. Spending $60 a week on gas, maybe saving 2% in fuel usage. That might save $1.20 a week or so. So in less than 3 years you would be in the black and have some free hp to boot.

                            At 1 or 2 hp cumulative HP increase from stock rockers. figure that might save 0.4% in fuel usage. That might save $0.25 a week or some number like that. So in 15 years it would pay for itself.

                            I hope I have this wrong as it would be nice to find something that would pay for itself and give us just a little more fun in the bargain.
                            Pretty much, but it's worth pointing out all those sims didn't account for the friction change, or have any way of talking about reduced heat, reduced oil wear, and any other benefits from aluminum roller rockers vs. stamped steel.

                            85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                            160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                            waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                            06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Test done at ford
                              Slipper tip (factory tips) vs roller tip. Friction of the slipper tip is over come just off idle after which its identical to roller tip. Roller tip valvetrain geometry has to be more accurate in relation to the valve tip.

                              Roller fulcrum vs steel ball/barrel. The roller has the advantage of lowering oil temps HP increases minimal

                              Rocker ratio increases have an effect on spring rates required to keep the lifter in contact to the lobe.

                              Back in the 70s ran my C motor up to 9000+ RPM with factory rockers and ford/crane roller fulcrum inserts
                              Scars are tatoos of the fearless

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