"truck" motor vs. "car" motor ... discuss

[sinistral]

i'm considering an engine swap for my '85 CP wagon (CFI).

per my "advice needed" thread, colorado emissions prohibit running a truck motor in a passenger car. as some have pointed out, how would the tech know, other than running casting numbers?

so, what is the difference... or what tell-tale signs would alert someone? i'm new to this, but have been reading these HO-swap threads voraciously these last couple of days -- upper intake and i assume the EEC number/label? <-- but isn't the EEC telling both motors to do the same thing?

could i swap an explorer motor and then use a different EEC for an HO panther?

reminds me of that old chicken commercial, "parts is parts". i'm trying to wrap my head around what makes an explorer / F-series 5.0 different from a mustang, other than a few details. seems (to me) like they can't be that different?

any insight / advice appreciated!

[pantera77]

No matter which you choose, you use a HO computer from a mark VII or mustang.

Explorer/Mountaineer engines have better heads, better intakes, a different cam (and a few other small things) compared to a HO mustang/mark VII engine.

F series engines aren't anything special, don't even look at those.

[sinistral]

Explorer/Mountaineer engines have better heads, better intakes, a different cam (and a few other small things) compared to a HO mustang/mark VII engine.

so from the outside looking, you obviously can't see the cam, heads probably look the same, right? is the intake visually different? i've only seen a few SEFI intakes and i thought they all just said "Ford 5.0 HO EFI"?

P.S. love that wagon in your sig! always liked that early Ford blue color... :thumbsup:

[sinistral]

so overlooking the ethics for a moment, is it feasible to swap in an explorer motor, use a mustang EEC (and possibly the upper intake, if the explorer intake is a giveaway somehow)... "found this motor on Craig's List -- seller said it came from a 19XX mustang".

yes? no?
the last thing i want is to swap a motor and not be able to register my car.

[mcninetyone]

I don't think that just looking at casting numbers, if anyone would bother to do that would mean a thing. The differences are more internal than external. The Explorer motor can be found under the hood of the fox body Mustang Cobra. although I know they are not identical but they are pretty close, so there goes the car vs truck thing. If it was me I would just do the swap and not look back. It would take some emissions zealot thats also a Ford guru to tell you it's not right. I did this swap myself, used a 96 Explorer engine, Lincoln logs, 04 CVPI air box, Mark VII HO computer and kept my SD, everything works great. I think all those threats about using a truck engine in a car is a bunch of crap. It would be very hard if not impossible to tell whats been swapped. Sounds like an unenforceable rule they hope will scare you. Like Nike says, just go for it!!!

[sinistral]

thanks, mcninetyone... sounds like you've got a good setup -- was it noticeably more powerful from stock?

i'm tempted to do something similar -- especially because i just saw the junkyard is having a (rare) one-day-only sale on friday, which means i could (in theory) snag a *complete* explorer motor for ~ $175!

[gadget73]

The F series intakes are way different, won't fit, and suck anyway. The Explorer one is a little different than what the standard lopo and HO had, but its virtually identical to what came on the Mustang Cobra. The lower is the same, the upper is functionally identical but looks a wee bit different. Some pics:



Thats a 93 Cobra upper and lower. It has an integral EGR spacer, vs the separate item used on the Explorer intake.



Thats a 96 Explorer intake in pretty nearly the same configuration we use. It faces the opposite side, but you get the idea.



Thats a stock HO upper intake, as installed on a Mustang, facing the wrong way.

They all look damn near the same, and since its a stupid common swap to stab the Explorer intake onto a Mustang it would be hard to say its a "truck" engine.

This is an F150 intake. You don't want this bullshit.

[sinistral]

thanks, gadget.

so re-phrased -- how to make an explorer motor look like a car motor? sounds like one way would be to just tell them it is a '93 mustang (though i guess the EGR would give me away). so what about using a mustang upper intake on an otherwise explorer motor? and the mustang harness / EEC. good to go?

[pantera77]

I wouldn't use the mustang harness, it's a lot more work then using a 86-91 panther harness and won't fit very well.

I also wouldn't use a regular SEFI intake on an explorer engine, those stock lowers don't flow very well or evenly. Their a restriction on stock HO's, let alone gt40/p's

[johnunit]

Honestly I'd just run it through looking more or less like the classic swap people do on here and hope it gets passed. It's not even immoral really if all your emissions stuff is still working. Remember, the average tech sees VERY few of these cars. They're not gonna know Explorer vs. Mustang vs. Crown Vic, they're just gonna see the distinctive shape of the 302 EFI manifold and assume it's more or less stock.

[sinistral]

I wouldn't use the mustang harness, it's a lot more work then using a 86-91 panther harness and won't fit very well.

so just to clarify (based on your other response above) -- i could use a panther harness, but a mustang EEC?

found this one locally:

I also wouldn't use a regular SEFI intake on an explorer engine, those stock lowers don't flow very well or evenly.

didn't i read somewhere that the upper/lowers are interchangeable, i.e. i could use an HO upper on the explorer lower (if you're saying the HO lowers don't flow).

thanks.

[sinistral]

Honestly I'd just run it through looking more or less like the classic swap people do on here and hope it gets passed. It's not even immoral really if all your emissions stuff is still working. Remember, the average tech sees VERY few of these cars. They're not gonna know Explorer vs. Mustang vs. Crown Vic, they're just gonna see the distinctive shape of the 302 EFI manifold and assume it's more or less stock.

well except that could work the other way against me, too... since they don't see these much, they type in the VIN in the computer to get the values and it spits out setup info for a CFI 302.
i won't be able to mask a swap -- just a matter of how closely they snoop to what was swapped. i do agree with you though that the bottom line is that it would pass emissions; that's why i think the law is a bit misguided.

[mcninetyone]

The swap is definitely well worth it!
Since doing it I've had a lot of people look at my engine and not a single one has ever guessed it was anything other than the stock CV lopo.
Even a guy that worked at a Ford dealer during the 80's/90's didn't have a clue when I showed it to him.
These are 20 something year old cars that most people have little interest in and even less knowledge about.
I would do the swap and not worry about it.

[sinistral]

can anybody tell me which intake this is?

[Kodachrome Wolf]

can anybody tell me which intake this is?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43161[/ATTACH]

Looks like a later Explorer intake.