Box Suspension Mod Questions

[TomO]

Hello -- I checked the sticky's and didn't find answers, so I decided to go ahead and post the questions. My questions have only to do with anti-sway bars and springs -- nothing else.

1st question -- which (if any) aero and whale springs and/or anti-sway bars will fit on the '88-'91 box?

2nd question -- are there any retail sources (used or new other than junk yards) where you can buy anti-sway bars for the '88-'91 box?

3rd question -- although I'm not positive, I suspect that the springs and anti-sway bars for any particular model of car need to be designed as a package in order to prevent dangerous or otherwise undesirable handling characteristics. In other words, you probably don't want to just slap a really heavy-duty front anti-sway bar on a standard car without also adding a rear anti-sway bar that was designed to act with the front one that you added, and you might also even need to change the springs too.

So, the question is, let's say you have a standard '88-'91 box and you want to upgrade the handling. How do you figure out which bars and/or which springs to use to come up with a complete suspension mod that will work and won't unexpectedly throw you into some sort of wild fishtailing tire squealing experience?

Thanks.

[sly]

1. none. Wagon and police is what you're looking for. Addco (sp?) also sells bars.

2. many. shipping is a turd. look for addco bars. (mainly rear. I don't think I've ever seen front bars available other than used.)

3. not really an issue with these cars. The only available ones go well together. Springs are available in all kinds of ability. One of the best mods for the boxes is to just put poly bushings all around and police/wagon front bar with the police rear bar (and control arms if needed... and boxed if you want added strength). Police rate springs also do a good job of stiffening things up. A rear axle from an aero (92-97) will also work for getting disc brakes added.


all that said... if you want to beef up the suspension any more than what the police package had... you'll need to get custom stuff made (springs are easiest to come by as many... MANY places offer custom spring rates). But if you wanna make it stay level in a turn at 50mph, you'll probably have to do more than just beef up the suspension.

as for your main issue... the question is how stiff do you want it. The police setup is pretty good and can handle stiffer springs too. Poly bushings and boxing the control arms that are already on there would also be a very good way to stiffen things up.

[TomO]

Hey, thanks for the info, Slymer. I'm not looking for anything much -- just a bit more than standard. Either the police package or the handling package (towing package) would be about as good as I really want to go.

One problem I have is that in my area, salvage yards don't keep cars for very long before they're sent off to the crusher. So, there's basically no chance of finding used heavy duty bars for boxes at the salvage yards around here -- those cars have all been long since crushed.

Where's a good place to look for the addco bars?

Also where would be a good place to look for used heavy duty bars? Is that sort of thing sold on ebay or are there any salvage yards that sell that sort of thing online?

Thanks.

[Piece-it pete]

I'd check with mcninety for the bars, he seems to have a direct line to the sway bar gods. If not maybe post in the 'wanted to buy'. They do make a significant difference.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...RUMENT-CLUSTER!

I use Energy sway bar bushings too.

Pete

[turbo2256b]

When I bought my Addico bars the JC Whiteny had the best price.

[johnunit]

IMO, the only thing that'll result in really unbalanced handling is a rear PI sway bar with all-stock up front. That will cause oversteer. Right now I have a PI front bar and no rear bar. It understeers more than stock, but does grip better. That's relatively safe. I think the PI rear bar, with front PI bar and stock non-PI springs will be really nice overall.

[TomO]

Guys, thanks a lot for the tips and info. Apparently JC Whitney no longer sells the Addco bars for the box bodies because they're not listed. I did find them on another website, but don't remember the name of the site now.

johnunit -- glad to hear that the heavy bars and stock springs will work well. That's sort of what I was hoping.

I thought of another question. Let's say you have a stock box-body with the stock rearend ratio (I believe it is a 2:73?) and you either leave the 215/70R15s on it or you go to 225/60R16, which I believe are even smaller in overall diameter than the 215's. How does the car perform as an everyday driver in general terms? For example, is it acceptable performance or a dog? The reason I'm asking is that I'm used to driving an '89 box that had OEM 3:55 gears, and it almost seemed like it was too low of a gear, and I've never driven a box with the 2:73 gears.

[jaywish]

215-70-15 has about the same height as 225-60-16. It is wider with a bit shorter sidewall so it is a bit more responsive.

It will not really change the acceleleration, just trade a bit of comfort for better handling.

Jay

[TomO]

215-70-15 has about the same height as 225-60-16. It is wider with a bit shorter sidewall so it is a bit more responsive.

It will not really change the acceleleration, just trade a bit of comfort for better handling.

Jay

Yeah, they're about the same, the 225/60's are just a tiny bit smaller from the specs I've seen.

But, really, my question was more along the lines of this -- assuming you don't have tires that are larger than the stock diameter, how does a box with the standard 2:73 perform compared with a more aggressive ratio? I've never driven one with the 2:73's, but I own one with the 3:55's and they almost seem like overkill for just all around driving. So, I'm just wondering what most guys think of the 2:73's with stock diameter tires.

[TomO]

I'd check with mcninety for the bars, he seems to have a direct line to the sway bar gods. If not maybe post in the 'wanted to buy'. They do make a significant difference.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...RUMENT-CLUSTER!

I use Energy sway bar bushings too.

Pete

Thanks, Pete. I PM'd McNinetyOne, but haven't heard back from him yet. I appreciate the help.

[sxcpotatoes]

I kinda snagged the next (unposted) set of PI Front & Rears with LCA's off McNinetyOne, but he said he'll be getting them in by the end of week this week probably, so who knows, he may score some more soon!

[Mercracer]

Yeah, they're about the same, the 225/60's are just a tiny bit smaller from the specs I've seen.

But, really, my question was more along the lines of this -- assuming you don't have tires that are larger than the stock diameter, how does a box with the standard 2:73 perform compared with a more aggressive ratio? I've never driven one with the 2:73's, but I own one with the 3:55's and they almost seem like overkill for just all around driving. So, I'm just wondering what most guys think of the 2:73's with stock diameter tires.

No Panther performs with 2.73s. Unless the speed of a tortoise is someone's idea of performance. 3.55s are a great all-around gear with OD. 3.27 is the absolute minimum gear for a Panther to begin to perform.

[Mercracer]

So, the question is, let's say you have a standard '88-'91 box and you want to upgrade the handling. How do you figure out which bars and/or which springs to use to come up with a complete suspension mod that will work and won't unexpectedly throw you into some sort of wild fishtailing tire squealing experience?.

The standard P72 diameter bars do an adequate job of controlling body roll. There is always someone with a rear bar to sell. Even if you leave your front bar alone and add a rear bar you will see an improvement. No Panther should have ever come from the factory without a rear bar in my opinion. It was simple stupidity on the part of Ford to leave one off.
Where do you live? There may be someone near you with a bar for sale.

[turbo2256b]

IMO, the only thing that'll result in really unbalanced handling is a rear PI sway bar with all-stock up front. That will cause oversteer. Right now I have a PI front bar and no rear bar. It understeers more than stock, but does grip better. That's relatively safe. I think the PI rear bar, with front PI bar and stock non-PI springs will be really nice overall.

Always set up my cornering cars with neutral to slight oversteer for track and street.

[Piece-it pete]

You know, if you're going to 16s anyway you should take a look at the big brake swap. Then you could use the big stock bar with its' ball & socket sway bar links.

My TC with open 2.73 is no racer by any stretch of the imagination, but it is adequite.

Pete