Ideal spring rate?

[johnunit]

Yeah I don't think there's any real point in further addressing your sway complaint if swaybars aren't an option. They're the best option, period.

[ootdega]

Yeah I don't think there's any real point in further addressing your sway complaint if swaybars aren't an option. They're the best option, period.

I asked what spring rate I should choose for my coil springs. I so far have half an answer out of 11 replies.

I see I'm only going to be berated and mocked for not conforming do the status quo expected here. Y'know, this happens a lot. I ask a question and instead of simply getting an answer, I get half a dozen people telling me what to do with my own damn car.

Instead of respecting my decision to go about things a different way and take a different route for a solution, you try and build my car for me.

[johnunit]

If your goal is stock ride quality but less body roll, with no swaybars, there really is no valid answer.

[ootdega]

If your goal is stock ride quality but less body roll, with no swaybars, there really is no valid answer.

My goal is less swinging of the front end when I turn. I asked what spring rate I should choose for my coil springs. I got an answer of 1000 for the front. I have asked for a suggestion for the rear, and have been mocked instead, as if I don't know the drawbacks of going without sway bars.

[sly]

The problem you are trying to solve with spring rates can't be solved with springs is the point people are pointing out. If you want to make the car not sway with springs, you're going to need spring rates that are reserved for HD trucks and other vehicles that out weigh yours by at least a ton. it will ride like it's on rails, but also like it's slammed on the axles. You've gotten some very good recommendations for springs from a few folks that have good experience with them. If you can't accept their points and reasoning and the vehicle engineers at every automaker about sway bars, then do what you want because you're obviously not going to listen to anyone anyways.

[ootdega]

The problem you are trying to solve with spring rates can't be solved with springs is the point people are pointing out. If you want to make the car not sway with springs, you're going to need spring rates that are reserved for HD trucks and other vehicles that out weigh yours by at least a ton. it will ride like it's on rails, but also like it's slammed on the axles. You've gotten some very good recommendations for springs from a few folks that have good experience with them. If you can't accept their points and reasoning and the vehicle engineers at every automaker about sway bars, then do what you want because you're obviously not going to listen to anyone anyways.

I am trying to reduce it, not eliminate it. The springs are worn. What do I replace them with. Simple question. I proposed 200s, so even a "yes" or "no" would be more helpful.

I have got one single suggestion for springs. One. The rest has been sarcasm and mocking.

[gadget73]

No sway bar because I know how sway bars affect traction on uneven surfaces and off road. I have done my research.

I seriously doubt that. If you were off roading and needed maximum suspension articulation, then yes. In a car that has no appreciable ground clearance and would be hugely ineffective in a rock climbing situation, no. If you do some research on cars that are built to handle tight turns and such, have a gander at the sway bars. They have them. People that do this stuff professionally would know whether or not its an appropriate thing to have.

THe answer is there is no answer. There is no ideal spring rate. You're trying to fix an imposed problem by means that aren't going to fix it. There is no formula for how to cripple a car's handling ability in a critical way and then fix it by changing other parts.



ANYWAY, the stock spring rate in the front is something around 360 in/lb. Its in the suspension sticky that I can't be bothered to reference currently. If you're bound and determined to try and fix this, try a 925 in/lb. Its still going to wallow like a fat chick in a Jello wrestling contest but you might improve handling from a drunk in a canoe to the QE-II.


Incidentally, THAT was sarcasm. Its not what was predominately offered in the posts above. What was offered was information and advice. We do sarcasm, but we don't really do status quo here. Consider we're collectively dealing with cars that the vast bulk of the world could give a shit about. We have guys here that have converted to manual transmssions, low riders, lifted cars, track cars, autocross cars, daily drivers, and all manner of things in between. We've got people ranging from late teens / early twenties to some guys that are at retirement age. Collectively we're not likely to mock you for having a different idea. You can, however, expect for people to tell you that you're wrong when you are, and expect them to offer information to the contrary. What you choose to do with said information is your call but at some point you can expect folks to stop talking if you aren't interested in listening. There are a lot of people here with a lot of knowledge, and collectively you're drawing on a whole lot of experience.

[ootdega]

It handles fine. I just want to reduce some of the swing when I turn into the goddamn parking lot. It only swings that bad at low speeds.

You aren't going to convince me that replacing the things the entire body is sitting on that have been in use on dead shocks for years isn't going to change anything.

I've been asking about the rear ones since the second post I wrote in this thread, and said in the first post that I've already read the sticky in question.

[sly]

And you've been given 3 different answers that are all about the same. If you want to reduce the sway of the car, get a skinny stock sway bar or even stiffer springs. The sway bar will not hurt ride comfort but will hamper the handling when racing on dirt. Since you're only dealing with roads, that shouldn't be an issue. To overcome the stock sway bar to the point it hinders handling through potholes, they would have to be deep and wide enough to damage the control arms and the you've got more to worry about the off-road handling.

[ootdega]

Okay, let me put this another way:

"What spring rate should I use?"
"Get a sway bar."

Does this answer the question? No. This does not answer the question. And 925 lb springs would make the whole thing go THUD.

I have thing. Thing needs replaced. I ask about replacing thing.

I am told to get other thing and mocked for not having other thing.

I did not ask about other thing. I asked about thing.


I want an improvement. I do not want TRACK DAY BRO. BRO, YOU GOIN TO TRACK DAY? LET'S GO TO TRACK DAY BRO

[ootdega]

"My springs are worn. What should I replace them with?

"SWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBAR SWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBARSWAYBAR"

[johnunit]

You're looking past the serious answer given to you.

The spring rate required to get back to even the factory amount of body role (ie. what it has with the factory sway bar) would be far higher than anything that fits these cars. You're talking probably 1500+ in-lbs in the front as opposed to ~500 factory. It will basically ride like an empty pickup truck with blown shocks. Unless you put super-stiff shocks on to keep the spring in line. At which point, you will have a very "track day bro" suspension, minus the sway-bars. In other words, all the harshness of a track-ready suspension, but without keeping your front end in line.

That's not a sarcastic answer. It's the truth. Sway bars are largely there to allow flat/stable cornering without ridiculous/uncomfortable spring rates. They didn't give wagons and tow package cars rear sway bars for canyon carving. They did it because it was the most effective way to keep all that weight in line in a corner without hurting ride comfort significantly.

So yeah, the closest thing to a serious answer you'll get is "stiffer than the speedway springs some people already find to harsh, and you'll want race shocks to go with it." It will ride like ass, and likely have a dangerously bad balance in hard/emergency cornering (like pretty much any panther with no swaybar will), but you'll have a car that doesn't dig it's bumpers into the ground when taking a turn without a sway bar.

[ootdega]

I am not trying to get back to factory body roll.

I am trying to get an improvement.

So I asked what springs I should replace my worn springs with.

It is a simple question.

[pantera77]

This was your first post:

However, the thing still swings like a half-conscious hippo around corners.

Were telling you how to easily correct this problem, yet you refuse to listen to reason.



Do you want to know what spring rate to use? Buy the motherfucking stiffest springs you can find. No joke.

[ootdega]

And I can guarantee you I can corner just fine. I do it all the time. I've done it for three years.