No power to starter solenoid when in keys in "start" position.

[slack]

Hey All,

I have a strange issue that just started yesterday after replacing some bad coolant hoses. My car no longer starts when the key is put in the "start" position. I can put it in the on position and use a screw driver on the starter solenoid and it will start up and run completely fine.

Does anyone have the wiring diagram that goes from the column to the solenoid or is there a possible fuse or something I might have blown?

Thanks!
Erik

[RyPow]

Check the small push-on connector on the solenoid - this is the "start" feed from the ignition switch. This connector can be very easily nudged/disturbed and will not make a reliable connection. I just went through this on a friend's '79 Town Car. If the connector happens to be loose, give it a little squeeze with pliers so that it will grip the terminal (threaded stud) on the solenoid better.

[slack]

Thanks for the reply!

Yep. I've given that a try. No luck. I can jump that post on the solenoid to the positive and the car turns over. I've tried putting a probe wire in the that wire and attaching it on the little post, bypassing the connector and no luck there either. I'm thinking something might have been broken somewhere further up the wire?

[johnunit]

given that it's, at minimum, a 22 year old car, I'd say throwing a new starter and negative battery cable at it are good ideas.

[Billy]

Unless there's something I'm missing here, isn't the fact that you can jump the solenoid and trick the car into starting indicative of a bad solenoid?

[RyPow]

Unless there's something I'm missing here, isn't the fact that you can jump the solenoid and trick the car into starting indicative of a bad solenoid?

He is jumping the keyed start terminal on the solenoid to positive, therefore the solenoid itself is still actuating properly. The issue is in the harness OR ignition switch.

slack, I would first check continuity between the solenoid end of the start wire and the large harness connector at the firewall. If it checks out good, try a different ignition switch if you have one (not the key cylinder but the actual switch further down the column with the big electrical harness connector going to it). I recently had an ignition switch go buggy and cause a dead alternator, no turn signals and no blower motor only when the engine was running. There was either a bad diode or a short in the switch which would backfeed the tap with the alternator field, signals and blower motor once the engine started.

For clarity's sake, keep in mind the difference between cranking and starting. A no-start scenario usually means the motor will crank but not run. In Slack's case he has a no-crank situation (but the engine will still start if the ignition switch harness is bypassed). I used to be on a Ford Taurus forum and one of the FAQ stickies made a point of stressing these definitions to save a lot of confusion/misdirection on the forum.

[fmansfield444]

Yep I would check out the ignition switch on the column under the shroud. Depending on the year the bolts holding it on can be either security torx, weird headless bolts and anything else really.

Also battery cables are always a good idea to replace.

[slack]

He is jumping the keyed start terminal on the solenoid to positive, therefore the solenoid itself is still actuating properly. The issue is in the harness OR ignition switch.

slack, I would first check continuity between the solenoid end of the start wire and the large harness connector at the firewall. If it checks out good, try a different ignition switch if you have one (not the key cylinder but the actual switch further down the column with the big electrical harness connector going to it). I recently had an ignition switch go buggy and cause a dead alternator, no turn signals and no blower motor only when the engine was running. There was either a bad diode or a short in the switch which would backfeed the tap with the alternator field, signals and blower motor once the engine started.

For clarity's sake, keep in mind the difference between cranking and starting. A no-start scenario usually means the motor will crank but not run. In Slack's case he has a no-crank situation (but the engine will still start if the ignition switch harness is bypassed). I used to be on a Ford Taurus forum and one of the FAQ stickies made a point of stressing these definitions to save a lot of confusion/misdirection on the forum.

Sorry. Yes you're correct. I should have marked the title stating it was cranking position.

I checked the wire just now and in the cranking position it read 11.5v. I plugged it back on the starter solenoid and the car cranked and started right up. I'm wondering if when the coolant hose busted it soaked the wiring harness causing some sort of short in the wiring. Tomorrow I'll trace the wire back to the firewall and look for any dings or cracks that might have caused it to short out.

I'll also check out the ignition switch... I think I remember reading on here that the original ones can catch fire when they fail so it's probably worth checking out.

The starter and solenoid I put in Sept 2012 so I'm pretty confident that they're both still good.

One thing I did noticed that didn't seem right to me is that the wire going to the keyed start terminal was showing ~7v when the key was just in the "on" position. Shouldn't that be zero?

Thanks for all the replies guys!

[GM_Guy]

Any signs of corrosion in that push on terminal? If it was bad, it may have taken a few remove and replaces to clean it up sufficiently.

Alex.

[slack]

Any signs of corrosion in that push on terminal? If it was bad, it may have taken a few remove and replaces to clean it up sufficiently.

Alex.

Nope. Push on terminal looks basically brand new still.

[91waggin]

Erik--

It would be very helpful if you put the vehicle you own in your signature. That way we know what you're talking about. I'm assuming the vehicle in question is the 89 Crown Vic you've posted about before. The 7v that you have during the run position concerns me and leads me to think there is corrosion at one of your wiring plugs that may be allowing voltage to leak through.

[RyPow]

The 7v that you have during the run position concerns me and leads me to think there is corrosion at one of your wiring plugs that may be allowing voltage to leak through.

Either there or in the ignition switch. Should definitely be 0V to the start wire in the Run position.

[gadget73]

Unplug and clean the connector that feeds down to the transmission. Its probably rectangular, and roughly in the middle of the firewall. That connection contains the neutral safety switch wiring, which is right smack between the ignition switch and the starter relay. If you had a coolant hose fail and get that wet, I'd bet thats where your problem lies. There is a constant +12v wire in that plug for the reverse light switch.

[slack]

Erik--

It would be very helpful if you put the vehicle you own in your signature. That way we know what you're talking about. I'm assuming the vehicle in question is the 89 Crown Vic you've posted about before. The 7v that you have during the run position concerns me and leads me to think there is corrosion at one of your wiring plugs that may be allowing voltage to leak through.

Thanks. I've updated my sig to include my car... hopefully it'll be in each post from now on.

Unplug and clean the connector that feeds down to the transmission. Its probably rectangular, and roughly in the middle of the firewall. That connection contains the neutral safety switch wiring, which is right smack between the ignition switch and the starter relay. If you had a coolant hose fail and get that wet, I'd bet thats where your problem lies. There is a constant +12v wire in that plug for the reverse light switch.

Sounds good. Thanks I'll add that to the list to check.


Lately I haven't had time to really dig more into this at the moment with the holiday season and all. I've made a round trip to York, PA (around 400 miles for me) without any issue. I've currently been fighting a leak in my trunk (ended up being a 3in^2 hole covered with caulk and paint by previous owner) and I had to replace a severely worn out positive battery cable. Also did a trans flush with new fluid and filter. (last trans was rebuilt around 2 years ago)

I'm also in the process of an 89 to 87 conversion. I've finished up the front half (just need to paint the new parts) and now have the rear bumper looking okay. I need to create a reader's ride page with pics showing the progress as there's been a lot in the past month.

-Erik

I still need to do front brake pads as the ones on there are shot. (new ones are in the trunk)

[87stars_stripes]

In addition to any of the above suggestions, I would also eliminate the possibility that your shifter linkage is in need of adjustment. Try to start the car with the selector in Neutral. I've had this problem before.