85 351 4door Vic **DUW**

[87gtVIC]

according to that site, my 91 mark VII weighs 12 lbs more than my 89 vic

what a fatass.

[Lincolnmania]

according to that site, my 91 mark VII weighs 12 lbs more than my 89 vic

[1987cp]

The nominal weights vary quite a bit from year to year and depending on what options, whether it got the HD frame, etc. My '81 base model was supposedly 3460 pounds, though I have yet to weigh it anywhere. My '87 police package was supposedly just over 3700 pounds, but its former owner reports weighing in at 3800 with him in it, and he weighed 200 at the time.

I'm pretty sure the anemic 180hp 351/VV combo was more or less the same from about '85 through '89 (earlier ones like '79 and '80 were rated as low as 140hp!) .... pretty sure we have a recent thread discussing just that matter.

[87gtVIC]

lol its no biggie. i have no idea as far as the weight difference.

[johnunit]

wow, double-egg on my face, it was just a paperwork typo, I think.

Whatever, 85 or 86 I'll finally have a car, and one with a 351 ford, in 2 days.

Apparently the 85s were 150ish pounds lighter than 86s, what's up with that?

[johnunit]

so, I feel like a bit of a tool. Apparently it's an 86 according to this http://mfr.activant.com/motorcraft/s...ier=Motorcraft


Does that even make any difference? And if an admin could change the name of this thread, that'd be great.


I'm picking it up Saturday, so I should have a boatload of "before" pics and vids by sunday night.

[1987cp]

You'll know the 3G instantly by its appearance - check this thread for a starting point: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=23630

3G is on the right in this pic; 1G and 2G look about the same from the front: http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/7.../dscf3693s.jpg

Stator plug same as 2G, but with post for charging cable: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...e/IMG_0389.jpg

[70torino429]

Don't forget, the high-output charging system from the '80s was a large case 1G that was rated at 100 Amps but still had sucky output at idle. Any Box Panther can benefit greatly from installing the superior 3G alternator and upgrading the wiring.

what cars came with them? i know alot of people have gotten them on tauruses/sables but what year did that start. i have an alt off a 88 taurus wagon and im wondering if its the 3g? its certainly big

[johnunit]

thanks guys, this is the sort ofinfo I need.

so 3G basically is for a possible fire hazard and charging issues at idle

The window probably just needs some silicone in the channels

All helpful stuff to know.

[1987cp]

lol.. oi cant answer much but the 3g alt is used to replace the fire prone (or so i heard..) stock altbut you have a 351 so i am not sure if it is still an issue.

Don't forget, the high-output charging system from the '80s was a large case 1G that was rated at 100 Amps but still had sucky output at idle. Any Box Panther can benefit greatly from installing the superior 3G alternator and upgrading the wiring.

[87gtVIC]

lol.. oi cant answer much but the 3g alt is used to replace the fire prone (or so i heard..) stock altbut you have a 351 so i am not sure if it is still an issue.
The window...take off the door panel and run the window up and down and see if it still makes noise, you can adjust it easily with the door panel off and you can even spray a silicone lube in the window run channels to make it easier on the the window.
good luck i want pics..and sry thats all i got for ya.

[1987cp]

I like the sound of this, and heartily approve of the long-winded obsessiveness! Definitely looking forward to pics.

[johnunit]

so in the next 3-4 days I'm going to be picking up my car, finally. You'll all know when I do because this thread will be filled with many, many pictures.

See http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28937 for original n00b post

It's a project, running and certified and more or less rust-free, but with a bunch of mostly cosmetic issues and a lot of plans for performance/comfort improvements. It'll be on a budget, big time. I'll have about a grand give-or-take once I get the car to do whatever to it, but some of that will be taken up in getting things like jack stands, tire cleaner, a snow brush, and all the other little things you need to get. After this, it gets dicey. I'll be shelling out about 400 a month in insurance (no, no tickets, I'm just 18 and male in one of the worst cities in the world for insurance...), with little or no help from my parents, on a part-timer budget (from my part time job I havent landed yet...).

Anyways, I'll just start off with a few facts about the car, good and bad:

- 351W with 2 barrel VV
I know these carbs can be troublesome, but I'm buying it from a guy who genuinly knows these cars and these carbs, so I'm gonna make a go of keeping the original carb for the sake of originality and not having money for a new carb, nor the gas mileage decline it could bring. If, with advice from this guy and the people on the forum, I still can't get it running right, I'll ditch it for some 4-barrel goodness in the future. For now, I'll take any tips anyone has on them beyond "replace with ____"

- 2.73 traction-lok rear, I think
This from the fuzzy picture of the door tag I have, so who knows if that's still true. With an out-of-tune carb it laid about 10 feet of rubber easily from a stop, so I suspect it's either no longer a t-lok or no longer a 2.73. Hopefully the latter

- Original dark metallic blue paint
When I bought it, it had some serious issues. A couple rust-through spots and some flat paint. However, short of some flaking pin-striping that probably wasn't factory anyway, it looks like it should all polish out. All the rust is being treated and re-painted by the seller, who has genuine enthusiasm for these cars. I haven't seen the end result, and I paid about 150 for all the paint work, but he did promise to have the body rust-free, so we'll see when I pick it up. It'll still need a polish, but I have some sort of strange polishing obsession anyway, so it'll get waxed and shined till it's smooth enough to play air-hockey on.

- Shitty chrome.
The bumpers are flaking, the front one with a dent that was fixed. I'm looking for new bumpers with halfway-decent chrome, and wanna experiment with a wagon bumper up-front for weight and corrosion reasons (aluminum ftw). There is cracking/crazing of most of the plastic/trim chrome, like the headlight bezels and, IIRC, the grill. I'll be looking for any tips on getting it looking halfway decent, and of course any good offers on replacement stuff in better condition.

- ripped vinyl top
Lots of tiny little rips in the vinyl top, but no large ones and it looks like if it's repaired it'll buff up decently. I'll look to just do that sort of gluing/blending type process for the short term, and depending on how much it resembles ass, I'll put re-upholstering it on the to-do list. No slick-top for me, I want to keep it appearing original, or at least easily put back to original.

- 150,000KM
It's got about 150,000 KMs on it, so 93,000 miles. Not remarkably low, but low enough that I have confidence it was never flogged as a cab or anything stupid like that. It was probably stored for a while, and the interior shows low (but not suspiciously low) wear, speaking of which..

- Blue velour interior.. that I like:drug:
I didn't think I'd go for something like dark blue velour, but I guess I'm getting older, or something. It's in real nice condition, no tears or huge stains or anything. If I can keep it clean (read: train my friends to use napkins), it'll be a pretty mint interior for a while. With the exception of...

- cracked dash pad
Well, yeah, of course. Really,what were the odds it wasn't crack? This one is cracked all to hell around the speaker areas, but there is an 85 Marquis (rotted body, decent otherwise) with the same colour interior that the guy is selling, so I'll see about getting the dash pad off that.

- 2 1/2 speaker stereo!
5-ish year old Clarion head unit, but at least the front speakers are original and 2 or 3 work, and they crackle. Clearly, this will be one of my priorities to fix. Besides the cracked dash and an exhuast that just isn't loud enough :evil:, that's the main issue functionally. I have a set of 4 Pioneer 6X9s and matching head unit, so I'll see if I can somehow set those up, since I'm sure the speakers are blown/crappy even when they do work.

- Weird list of options
It has a few real high-end options, like automatic climate control and of course the 351W, but not only has manual seats (weight savings ftw), but no right hand mirror. What the hell? Who drops hundreds of dollars on the big motor and automatic climate control, but sticks with manual seats and won't even spend 10 bucks on a third mirror? The guy also, I assume, option a 2.73 and a trak-lok when 3.08 open rears were standard. That seems like a strange choice too.

- Wire wheel covers
I can deal with velour seating, and a vinyl roof... but god dammit, I'm 18 and I don't want wire wheel covers. They aren't for sale, I'm keeping everything around for originality's sake incase I need to sell it at some point, but dammit someone sell me some nice wheels! At least some hub caps or something.




So, for now, that's most of what I know and pretty much all of what might be interesting. I may have set a record for longest pic-less post. Don't worry, they'll follow.


Obviously there are a few questions contained above that I'd love answers to. Most of what I know about these boats, I know from this site, so keep it coming. I've got lots of theoretical knowledge about cars, but I'll still be asking a bunch of n00bs questions, because beyond bodywork and disassembly, I don't have a whole lot of working experience.


I have a few final(yeah right) questions:

1. what should my first steps be with performance if I'm trying to keep the VV carb? I'm pretty well-versed in the 4.6 performance stuff, but somewhat of a n00b with the windsor blocks and carbs. Does a high-flow air filter do anything on these? Is there an intake tubing setup that I could go with for less restriction? Timing/thermostat/plug type changes? E7 or GT40 heads maybe? I've got at least 500 to spend on speed, but I gotta make it count, so within that I'm open to any suggestions.

2. What's my best bet for muffler-less exhaust? I'm thinking just replacing each muffler with a straight pipe, cutting them out and clamping in the new pipe, will be my path to loud and a bit faster. Any tips? Pics or vids of setups? I don't think the cops are too hard on loud V8s (lots of super-loud tow-trucks and ricers to keep them busy), but will this be illegal-loud if I keep the cats? I want it as loud as I can get away with, if that gets annoying then I'll drop 50 bucks on a pair of glasspacks or something (or put back the mufflers I cut out). Any tips on this?


3. When I roll the windows down (or up, IIRC), they make a thu-thu-thu type noise, like the door panel is grabbing. The windows move at a constant speed, but the panel shakes like a mother. Is this normal? Is this something not put together right, or maybe just getting old? flat out: how do I fix this?


4. I keep hearing about the 3G mod being a big help. Do these cars have charging issues if I keep my stereo and lights reasonable? What's the advantage of the bigger alternator (or, rather, the disadvantage of the stock ones)?


If there are any other quirks you think I should know about, tell me, and thanks for reading (or skimming) my long-winded obsessiveness. You will all be rewarded with pics and vids (including "how many foreigners can you fit in the trunk" vids) in due time.

And since everyone but me seems to have said this at some point..

Mang.