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Thread: I call it the Monolith. I have plans for it.

  1. #201
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    It's been a few years since my last AOD removal/install, but I believe for the cross member mounts at the frame rails the bolt head may not be the same size as the nut on the bottom. My vote would be to cut the cross member. You also have a chance of the body mounts on the car being shot, which would mean the bolts could not be removed if you don't have a way to jack the body up enough to get the bolts to clear the floor pans.

    The AOD is one heavy SOB. How are you supporting and lowing this trans? Yards around here don't allow jacks, but the yard you are going to may have different policies. (Sorry if I already asked and you already answered, just want to be sure you are prepared as well as you can be.) I once built a platform of 4x4 wood (probably less than 2ft long each) to rest the trans on oil pan on (arranged something like the picture attached, obviously not with round wood). Then slowly lifted one end/side of the trans at a time removing one piece of wood at a time until I had the trans on the ground and could slide it out from under the car. It was a PITA but slowly got the job done. (This was before I had my own trans jack and I must not have been able to borrow my uncle's and didn't have time to wait for his to become available.)


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    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  2. #202
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sly View Post
    If there's room for an adjustable knuckle buster, you might try that. Other than finding an open-end/box-end wrench at a store, not sure what you can use. As for cutting it, if you use a battery powered reciprocating saw, most yards will allow it. Obviously, you'll have to check with them. A good bi-metal demo blade typically does the trick.
    That would explain why they specifically asked if I had a grinder. That, and a grinder is probably what lit up the car that was on fire when I got there.

    Quote Originally Posted by FordMan77 View Post
    Skip the crescent wrench you'll just round it off. Go into any parts store and grab you an 18mm box/open end wrench. They should have it. I have needed all kinds of odd size wrenches and have most always been able to get them there. I have a 16, 18, and 21mm all from OReilly's.

    If all else fails ask the yard to have them move the car onto something else so you can get to them. I needed exhaust from a GP in the 'yard and the way it was stacked I couldn't get the catback out from under it. Went up front and kindly asked the person at the desk if they would bring the skid steer over and lift the car up long enough for me to safely get it. Said give him 10 min and there he was. Gave the guy a $10 tip and off I went dragging an entire catback to muffler system from the back of the yard to my truck.
    That sounds like the safest option to remove it from under the car. Unbolt everything while it rests on something, and have them lift the car off the transmission.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicCrownVic View Post
    It's been a few years since my last AOD removal/install, but I believe for the cross member mounts at the frame rails the bolt head may not be the same size as the nut on the bottom. My vote would be to cut the cross member. You also have a chance of the body mounts on the car being shot, which would mean the bolts could not be removed if you don't have a way to jack the body up enough to get the bolts to clear the floor pans.

    The AOD is one heavy SOB. How are you supporting and lowing this trans? Yards around here don't allow jacks, but the yard you are going to may have different policies. (Sorry if I already asked and you already answered, just want to be sure you are prepared as well as you can be.) I once built a platform of 4x4 wood (probably less than 2ft long each) to rest the trans on oil pan on (arranged something like the picture attached, obviously not with round wood). Then slowly lifted one end/side of the trans at a time removing one piece of wood at a time until I had the trans on the ground and could slide it out from under the car. It was a PITA but slowly got the job done. (This was before I had my own trans jack and I must not have been able to borrow my uncle's and didn't have time to wait for his to become available.)


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    Shit, that's a good point... With the flanges bent, there isn't anywhere for the bolt to go. Even if I can turn it, it's not coming out. So cutting it is the only option. I'm glad you brought that up.

    I'm going to be using spare tires. Two of them stacked is exactly the right height to directly support the pan. Jacks aren't allowed.



    Alright, I'll grab a cordless saw and bimetal blades on the way there. Thanks guys. I really appreciate how fast you respond. Now I just need to figure out if I have some way to get it a quarter mile uphill to avoid the $50 loader transport fee.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  3. #203
    Wagon Addicted Tiggie's Avatar
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    Glad you are making progress. I once cut an exhaust system and radiator support out with a hacksaw. It sucked. That said, I would cut the crossmember. Most yards I hav been to do not mind the loss of a $10 crossmember to get to a higher dollar item like an engine or transmission. Good luck today.
    1990 Country Squire - weekend cruiser, next project
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - waiting in the wings

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  4. #204
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Okay, the transmission is completely disconnected. Crossmember is cut, it's seperated from the engine, and it's happily and securely sitting on a 2-stack of tires. Lifting the car should leave it safely.

    Now I just need to figure out how the hell to get it out of there. If the loader guy won't lift the car, then things get much more complicated, and much more dangerous. I only have a few vague ideas on how to get it out manually, and I'm not sure how well they would pan out.

    I could slowlywinch the second tire out from under the first and lower it that way. The Y-pipe would be useful to keep the top one still. I could ratchet strap the hell out of it and TRY to slowly lower it. Not a great idea in my book. They have A-frames available, but I don't know how that's going to help me with the transmission itself, and it could also end very badly.

    I go back first thing in the morning. This is a conundrum that I should ideally have solved before then. If not, uhh... Click image for larger version. 

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    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  5. #205
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Honestly, not bad progress so far.

    I wonder if the yard would be pissed if two holes appeared in the roof of the car and the floor of the car? Maybe just don't mention it to them. (This suggestion is the result of their no jacks policy, after all.)
    If the A-frame chains aren't long enough to somehow reach under the car (not sure what good that would do anyway), a hole at the front and rear of the trans in the floor pan (seats will need to be removed and the dash may put the front hole back a ways) and matching holes in the roof... on second thought, perhaps just one hole (floor and roof) strategically placed would do and may even avoid seat removal.

    Take that as brainstorming, not necessarily exactly how it will workout in reality. Perhaps even use that idea in conjunction with ratchet straps.
    Last edited by VicCrownVic; 03-29-2022 at 10:38 PM.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  6. #206
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Also, since this is a '90 and your car is an '89 you will need to take the pan off of both transmission and swap the linkage. (may have been mentioned already.)

    I did it with the trans in the car, but I would suggest doing it with both transmissions out and on their sides. I'll see if I can find a good writeup on that, or someone else may beat me to posting one.

    Also, getting the '89 rod shift linkage disconnected is a pain compared to the '90+ cable shift linkage setup.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  7. #207
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Wow. Man, you don't fuck around, do ya? Brutal. But it's something to consider. I mean, it's not like anyone is going there for the floorboards. Last resort probably, though.

    I know about the shift linkage, I already removed it. It's staying on the car. I felt pretty clever when I figured out how to do it. What's wrong with the pan?



    Also, I would like to share that the car made it 20 miles to my mom's place to work on it there. Butchered u-joints and a transmission that rarely acknowledges 1st or 2nd gear, sat for 5 years...and it made the whole trip going the speed limit. Just had a barely-noticable vibration, and a very spicy driveshaft. Our plan was to use the flashers, but...it didn't need them. It really, truly wants to live.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  8. #208
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Shift lever swap may be the more accurate wording, not linkage swap. The swap that needs to be done requires removing the pan. The pan is the same '89 and '90 (all years AOD use the same pan). The yards in Detroit all puncture the pans to drain them, so if your yard does the same you can swap the '89 pan to the '90 trans.

    Found the post I was thinking of: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post681384
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  9. #209
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    I thought that might be what you meant. Awesome, thank you. Spring is noted.

    Thankfully, this one has the metric pan with a drain plug. Upgrade? Upgrade.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  10. #210
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Oh, drain plug could mean someone actually kept up with regular maintenance. Perhaps even some improved internals to try to make the trans last a little longer. Stock AODs did not come with a drain plug.

    Quote Originally Posted by ootdega View Post
    Wow. Man, you don't fuck around, do ya? Brutal. But it's something to consider. I mean, it's not like anyone is going there for the floorboards. Last resort probably, though.
    I usually do not condone destroying stuff in the JY to get at what you want, but in this case I find it highly unlikely that someone will need the floor pan or roof and have access to this car before it is crushed. It's when people unnecessarily destroy things that could have easily been saved, just to get what they want, that pisses me off.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  11. #211
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Well, no need to worry. We got it out with minimal casualties. Held the top tire back with the Y-pipe, pulled the bottom tire out from under it with a winch and chain, used seats to gradually step it down. Had to winch the seats out from under it, though. That was a pain, but it all came together. Not gonna lie, I feel pretty clever.

    I win.

    You are probably right about the condition. The whole thing turns easily by hand and carries inertia, the fluid is super clean, and both the flexplate and converter are aftermarket, in excellent condition. So is the starter. I didn't get the plate, but I might next time. Not sure I need it, but I do want it.

    The dipstick tube was tragically lost in the process. Not my fault. Don't tell anyone, but I think it was already broken. But now I need to find a new one, and I'm not 100% sure which will fit. If a Mustang tube will fit, then I have a lot of options.

    God I hope you're right.




    I'll be going back regularly to disassemble as much of this wrecker as possible. This is the only 1st gen Panther available in the entire city. I better take advantage of this while I can. I dunno where all the rest went. They were everywhere a few years ago. Just disappeared. Probably crushed, because they aren't a Mustang.

    The '95 also has a freakin huge front sway bar as part of the tow package. I might grab that too.
    Last edited by ootdega; 03-30-2022 at 08:02 PM.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  12. #212
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    If you don't have a good trans dipstick tube between this donor '90 and your '89, the tube from that '95 will likely work. Mustang tube will fit the trans end but may be shaped in a way that puts the top of the tube in a not useful location (no idea really.)
    Should be one bellhousing bolt holdomg thentube then it pulls up and out of the trans.

    The starter on that '90 is wired different compared to the '89. There are threads on converting '89 and down Panthers to the '90+ starter, but if you take the wires to the starter and take note of where they go it could make that swap easier. The '90+ starter uses less power to do the same amount of work and is smaller, making it a desirable swap on the older Panthers.

    The '95 front sway bar I think has different mounting for the swaybar endinks, but someone who knows more about that will have to chime in. I'm not familiar with the newer swaybar setup.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  13. #213
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Well, it turns out dragging the transmission out of the yard in a wheelbarrow a quarter mile up a hill that peaks at a 30 degree incline, and then doing it again with a set of Lincoln wheels that were in good condition, and then doing it again to get a winch for someone else isn't very good for you. My back was absolutely annihilated and I threw up twice from exhaustion. I was out of commission for a week. My stomach still doesn't quite accept people food.

    Haven't made any progress since then because it has been snowing. In April.

    Couldn't find the extension housing bolts, and they want 12 bucks a piece online. But they weren't very smart, because they listed the exact specifications of the bolts. So I just took a screenshot to Tacoma Screw and got four grade 10.9 bolts for $1.38. I forgot washers though.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicCrownVic View Post
    If you don't have a good trans dipstick tube between this donor '90 and your '89, the tube from that '95 will likely work. Mustang tube will fit the trans end but may be shaped in a way that puts the top of the tube in a not useful location (no idea really.)
    Should be one bellhousing bolt holdomg thentube then it pulls up and out of the trans.

    The starter on that '90 is wired different compared to the '89. There are threads on converting '89 and down Panthers to the '90+ starter, but if you take the wires to the starter and take note of where they go it could make that swap easier. The '90+ starter uses less power to do the same amount of work and is smaller, making it a desirable swap on the older Panthers.

    The '95 front sway bar I think has different mounting for the swaybar endinks, but someone who knows more about that will have to chime in. I'm not familiar with the newer swaybar setup.

    I got a new tube from an 89 Town Car, same car the wheels came from. Easy. Also got a glovebox latch, since mine is broken. Freakin miracle, that one. Might even figure out how to get it open with this.

    I'll keep the starter and sit on it for now, but if there's anything I can do, it's rewire a plug. Every connector in this PC has been rewired. I know my way around a soldering iron, at least.

    You're right about the bars. Completely different end links.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  14. #214
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Well, the shift linkage isn't cooperating. As far as I can tell, I'm doing it right. Following the holy texts and everything. The linkage won't come out, and I'm afraid of breaking something if I try any harder. The nut is just spinning, and so is the lever. So I'm kinda stuck.

    I can put it off for now, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

    EDIT: It's a teeny tiny little pin. I thought it was some kind of bleeder valve. So I'm trying not to feel like a moron.

    https://youtu.be/_6UX9itv1NM
    Last edited by ootdega; 05-17-2022 at 03:18 PM.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  15. #215
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    The pin that holds the linkage in place is not going to come out. It's not even a pin. It's a tiny little rolled-up piece of sheet steel. It's not going anywhere, and any options I have are likely to just break the case. So I'm going back to plan A. I'm taking both of them apart, seeing what can be used, and going from there.

    The junkyard transmission is in poor external condition, including the tailshaft, and is somehow missing multiple internal parts. The parking pawl literally fell out when I dropped the pan. But the inside is clean, so there's still a good chance most if it is usable.

    Considering doing the differential while I'm at this. Not sure how to go about getting the P71 axles shortened. Dutchmann doesn't seem to have an invoice form for that, and that's the only way they accept orders now.


    ...The badges also came off. I won't lie, that hurt my feelings a little bit.
    Last edited by ootdega; 05-19-2022 at 10:55 AM.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

  16. #216
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    It's probably a roll pin. It should come out.
    Have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuBBYmPStSs
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"

  17. #217
    Still Wrenchin'! friskyfrankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    It's probably a roll pin. It should come out.
    Have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuBBYmPStSs
    Cool tips. "MM (Monkey Meters) - Ha Ha!
    What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
    What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

  18. #218
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    I am confused, why do you need p71 axles? I thought everything, but the rare limo HD axles, were the same except for the #of splines 28 changing to 31 in 05 or maybe mid 04. Maybe you have some P71 axles lying around?

    I can't remember for sure if the 90 and up axles are actually any longer than 89 and down?
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, Blue Fuzzy Dice
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  19. #219
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    its a roll pin, usually they come out with a pair of diagonal cutters. The problem is if some dickhead drove it in there too far during assembly and didn't leave enough sticking out to grab with the pliers.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
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    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

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    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  20. #220
    Member ootdega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arquemann View Post
    It's probably a roll pin. It should come out.
    Have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuBBYmPStSs
    Something like this was suggested to me, but I was concerned about expanding the dumb thing and cracking the case. I'll try it in the future when I put a 4R70W in there. That will probably need a linkage swap too. This one is a lost cause, even if the pin came out. It's missing enough parts below the pan that I don't trust the inside of it either. That's how I'm coping with it, at least. It's already half disassembled.

    I'm looking at this as an opportunity to add a few more clutches. It makes me feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    its a roll pin, usually they come out with a pair of diagonal cutters. The problem is if some dickhead drove it in there too far during assembly and didn't leave enough sticking out to grab with the pliers.
    This is the problem. There was barely enough to grip onto, and the one time I had grip with the cutters, it wouldn't budge. Slipped off, took some of the pin with it, and nothing else ever got a grip. Went out and bought the needliest needlenose pliers I could find, and they were still too thick to get in there. It is a uniquely infuriating experience to have all your plans and the absolutely miserable month attached to them completely trashed by one teeny tiny little pin.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaywish View Post
    I am confused, why do you need p71 axles? I thought everything, but the rare limo HD axles, were the same except for the #of splines 28 changing to 31 in 05 or maybe mid 04. Maybe you have some P71 axles lying around?

    I can't remember for sure if the 90 and up axles are actually any longer than 89 and down?
    I am replacing the 28s with 31s. I have a Cobra diff to put in it. I bought the P71 axles a long time ago, off a 2011. They are 4 inches longer, which means they have enough space to respline them. Dutchman up in Meridian does that for $130 a pair.



    Something to note: I was looking up methods of removing the AOD front pump assembly, and I found someone mention that the starter bolts match the two opposing threaded holes in it. I still had the starter bolts, so (after making sure they fit) I took one to Tacoma Screw and got a couple that were twice as long. This let me just alternate screwing them in until the bolts pushed the pump out. Very easy, has zero risk of damage, cost me a dollar, and requires no special tools whatsoever.
    Last edited by ootdega; 05-19-2022 at 10:36 PM.
    89 Grand Marquis GS.

    Putting it here because I keep forgetting to mention it. It's not very exciting at the moment.

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