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Thread: 02 MGM Help needed

  1. #1
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    Default 02 MGM Help needed

    I could really use some help trying to figure out whatís going on. A month ago I had what I thought was torque chatter. It happened so fast by the time I got off the gas it was gone. I read what I could and waited for it to happen again. I also checked fuel pressure and it was 30psi. Fast forward to today. It stalled in a slow left turn in the neighborhood. I didnít realize it but the yellow check engine light was lit. I pulled over and it started right up. I turned the A/C on and got about a block when it acted up again. It wouldnít take the gas pedal. Almost felt like I was driving into a severe headwind. I turned off the A/C, came off the gas and it cleared up. 10 minutes later it happened again. Wouldnít respond well to giving it gas. It did act normal when I came off the gas. I drove it around for another 15 minutes and it acted fine. I initially thought fuel pump but the more I read the more I couldnít exclude the crank position sensor. I have no idea how to proceed. Anyone have a similar issue? My wife uses the car often and I do t want her to have trouble on the road.
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Check the codes for a start.
    "X" car 89 Colony Park LS Mods>Engine delete, SS duals magnaflow hflow cats, 2010 Must GT mufflers, auto air shocks, Posi, Tran cooler, big front brakes, 03+ rear disks, Large 3g alt, Tripminder, GS grill, 86 seats, 16" HPP wheels, winter boots=96 Cartier wheels, 215-65/16 Goodyear ULTRA GW3 snows, pi rear sway, alum driveshaft.
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    No mean-spiritedness here. IPreferDIY's Avatar
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    For a situation like this, it would be helpful to have something to plug into the car's computer to see if you can learn anything that way. A simple code reader would not be all that great, but there might be a "pending code" to indicate what's up. A scanner is better, since it tells you all kinds of operating parameters in addition to accessing codes. IDK what a typical scanner comes with, but mine can also access "onboard monitor" info, which has been particularly good for localizing misfires to particular cylinders.

    I recall reading that the engine would not function at all with a faulty crank position sensor, but I'm no expert. Have you checked basic things like fluid levels (tranny and coolant come to mind in particular) and cleanliness of air filter?

    2000 Grand Marquis LS HPP, a hand-me-down in 2008 with 128,000 km; 175,000 km as of July 2014
    mods: air filter box "tuba" (in place of the "trumpet"), headlight relay harness, J-mod (around 186,350 km), 70mm throttle body, NKL4 PCM (from a 2000 CVPI, nothing great there apart from highway cruising), KYB Gas-A-Just shocks (after >202,000 km on originals)

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    No idea how to check codes. No lights on the dash are lit. Check engine is not on. The car had every conceivable maintenance item replaced 3000 miles ago All fluids, filters, plugs, coils, belt, AC clutch. it’s been running like a new car. Gas mileage is around 17 miles per gallon in town the car has been very normal. I was hoping that whatever it was was common to the car and that many here might’ve seen it before. I’m stumped I wish whatever it was just broke so I could find it and fix it

  5. #5
    GMN Regular EaOutlaw1969's Avatar
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    Could be anything wrong, start with checking the codes, if you do not have a reader maybe autozone or another shop will read them for you for free?
    2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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    Thanks. Autozone is nearby. I’ll head there in the morning. Thanks for the suggestion.

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    It's possible you could have pending codes and they just haven't tripped the check engine light yet.
    2002 Mercury Grand Marquis LSE - Purchased 02/19/20 at 96,500, current Daily Driver.
    2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - Purchased 07/29/19 at 69,500, sold 2/14/20 at 85,500.
    2001 Lincoln Town Car Executive Series - Purchased 04/18/15 at 108,653, traded in 05/02/16 at 139,000.
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    Back from Autozone. They let me scan it and unfortunately there were no codes. It drove fine today. Iím going to do a visual inspection and Iím thinking about replacing the crank position sensor and dreading replacing the fuel pump but may take it on. I hate throwing parts at it but I canít really sit around and wait for my wife to get stranded with it. If anyone has any thoughts please post. Thanks

  9. #9

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    My two guesses would be either the fuel pump or maf but Iím leaning more towards maf. Do you have any way of datalogging?


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    This really sounds like a wire wiggle test waiting to happen. Something is probably corroded or some wire loose somewhere. My wife's 2000 CV had the OBD-II wires break for some odd reason and they had to run new wires. Could be the same issue working itself into action between the PCM and the engine. Or the TPS/MAF/ECT/CAM/Crank (some sensor) is in need of a clean, replacement, pigtail connector.

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  11. #11
    GMN Regular EaOutlaw1969's Avatar
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    You have a older car which any part at any time could leave you or your Wife stranded, even with a new car there is always the chance of getting stranded.
    With this in mind it may be a better idea to spend money on a AAA gold membership and make sure the cell phones stay charged.

    As far as diagnosing the problem You are on the right track with checking the basics.

    I would start with pulling each and every fuse and checking for corrosion replacing or resurfacing suspect fuses. I would also check the battery connections and all the grounds.

    I would also do a wiggle test on the harnesses throughout the car as the car is running.

    The one thing that does stand out is the fuel pressure you found I would think 30 PSI is low for a fuel injected car But since I do not have a manual for a 2002 I do not know for sure. So please confirm with a manual for the rated fuel pressure.

    In the years of working on cars it seems when ever I came across a weird problem it was normally caused by the last person that worked on the car, anything from loose connections from broken harness tabs to missing bolts and pinched or otherwise shorted wires even vacuum leaks could be causing your problem.

    With this in mind double or triple check all the previous work done to the car even if you know it was done right check it all again anyways.

    if this was my car and I had done all of this work and suspected fuel pressure or loss of injector pulse I would rig up a fuel pressure gauge and tape it down to the windshield you could also do the same with a noid light to check for injector pulse.

    But first like I said recheck the manual for the correct fuel pressure as 30 psi sounds too low. others here may have better ideas.

    I may add a worn TPS ( throttle Position switch ) could cause a loss of power and perhaps a shutter at low throttle and not cause a code hard to find with a DVOM but easily found with a lab scope. If you find nothing wrong with the fuel pressure or wiggle test and had to toss a part at it a TPS is a cheap and normally easy one to install and well worth doing if the part is original. but stick with a Motorcraft part.
    Last edited by EaOutlaw1969; 05-05-2020 at 11:36 AM.
    2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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    The crank pos sensor connector looks a little wet with oil. Must be from previous work. Not really sure. The sensor itself had a pretty gunked up tip. I am just replacing it and cleaning the plug. If it happens again Iíll do the fuel pump assy. Hate not getting to the root cause with clarity but I need this fixed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 68B60057-EF31-4DC5-A7F9-5C0D12B3F29B.png   53076605-43A2-485A-B86A-90159AEB6850.png  
    Last edited by Prgrmerror; 05-05-2020 at 11:41 AM.

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    I forgot to mention one or more of the spark plug wells may be full of water or oil and could cause intermittent issues but would normally be caught by a code. may be worth pulling them out one by one and inspect each boot for signs of moisture or oil.
    2007 Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport

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    Sensor replaced and both banks dry. There was oil in 2 when I did the plugs in the fall but I took care of that then. The car started, ran, and drove fine. I did 4 miles in the neighborhood with the A/C on max. Running perfect. Hope it doesn’t do that again but if it does and still no code I’ll do the fuel pump. Thanks for the sounding board. I’m not a wrench but with YouTube and this forum I’ve managed to do fairly well with repairs and maintenance.

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    I re read the thread and will do the wiggle test while running. The 30psi is on the low side of okay. I think it may be a good time to order some sensors; the car seems to be mostly original and has 150k. This is the dog car for us. A breakdown means with 3 large dogs. That can’t happen. Lol

  16. #16
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    If the fuel filter hasn't been recently changed... might be something to think about too.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  17. #17
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Hopefully that crank position sensor was the ticket. If you do end up deciding to do the fuel pump, I'm with sly on trying fuel filter first. Cheaper and easier and if it's not the problem, no big deal. Fuel pump can be a pain, and if it's not the problem that's more time and money you might wish you had back (may depend on your budget how you feel about it).


    As far as I am aware the fuel pump setup on a 2002 is basically the same as on a 1991. When I replaced the fuel pump and hanger assembly on one of mine back in Nov-Dec I did it without dropping the tank.

    First problem I ran into was the quick connects not wanting to come undone due to rust. I ended up trashing those ends and had to replace them. The replacements that I got from the Junk Yard came off no problem, so if your lines aren't rusty you may not have this issue.

    Second problem was getting the replacement hanger assembly to seal against the tank. Eventually we used some Permatex MotoSeal on the O-ring gasket, but thinking about it afterward, perhaps lubing the O-ring was causing it to slip out to the edge. Un-lubed maybe the thing would have bit and not slipped. I was only looking to get a few more months out of that car though.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning summer 2020, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - My rotting winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

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    Thanks for the tips. Oem filter done in November. I use Costco for gas. Only 2 year olds station. My other Cars are fine I almost want to replace the pump. My fuel gauge reads 7/8 for full and when low fuel comes on it only takes 15 gallons.

  19. #19
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Oh, the fuel level sending unit is on the same hanger assembly as the pump. A new pump and hanger assembly will come with the a new sending unit on it.

    I suppose if the hanger assembly is clocked wrong (if someone else replaced it in the past) it could cause the reading to be off. If that's the case mark top dead center of the face of the hanger then line that up with top dead center of the hole in the tank.

    Also note the orientation of the old hanger before you touch it if you are curious to know if the old one was hanging straight up and down. If it was, there may be a resistance discrepancy on the old sending unit (corrosion or something).

    If the new one does the same, there might be a resistance issue between the tank and the cluster (most likely corrosion again, but there are other possibilities).
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning summer 2020, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - My rotting winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  20. #20
    Riding on air! mercurygm88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicCrownVic View Post
    Oh, the fuel level sending unit is on the same hanger assembly as the pump. A new pump and hanger assembly will come with the a new sending unit on it.

    I suppose if the hanger assembly is clocked wrong (if someone else replaced it in the past) it could cause the reading to be off. If that's the case mark top dead center of the face of the hanger then line that up with top dead center of the hole in the tank.

    Also note the orientation of the old hanger before you touch it if you are curious to know if the old one was hanging straight up and down. If it was, there may be a resistance discrepancy on the old sending unit (corrosion or something).

    If the new one does the same, there might be a resistance issue between the tank and the cluster (most likely corrosion again, but there are other possibilities).
    The moron that did the fuel pump/sending unit and fuel module in my 2003 TC and then double charged what a normal shop would have dicked up the sending unit somehow. When the pump would kick off it barely read past 3/4, filling it up until fuel ran out the fill almost got it to full. Somewhere on here I read or was told that some non OEM sending units don't read right.
    2002 Mercury Grand Marquis LSE - Purchased 02/19/20 at 96,500, current Daily Driver.
    2003 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series - Purchased 07/29/19 at 69,500, sold 2/14/20 at 85,500.
    2001 Lincoln Town Car Executive Series - Purchased 04/18/15 at 108,653, traded in 05/02/16 at 139,000.
    1995 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Inherited 10/2009 at 105,000 totalled 4/30/10 at 120K, My dumbass fault.
    1988 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - Purchased 6/26/11 at 82,610 totalled 4/16/15 at 137,000, Not my fault.

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