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Thread: Transmission Noises and Leaks

  1. #21
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    As someone who lives in a state where rust is a fact of life, I've never worried about the driveshaft rusting/rotting. They certainly will completely surface rust, but nothing alarming in my experience. I ran my '89 MGM for a decade and had transmissions in and out of it a couple times in 2008 and 2011 (and 2012 when I stole the trans to put into The Ice Car.)
    If this was a CV/MGM you could just grab an aluminum driveshaft from a '91 MGM/CV, but isn't the drive shaft different length in a town car? Did the TCs ever get an aluminum driveshaft?
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  2. #22
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yes its longer, no they never went AL so far as I know. Also never seen one with anything worse than cosmetic rust issues. Most of them have enough oil soaked into the surface that its basically rust-proof. Don't see why you couldn't give it a light sanding, a heavy degrease, and a couple coats of rattle can. You'd have to really try to get the paint on there so uneven that it would bother things.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #23
    Member atlantic3000's Avatar
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    next time it is low try adding a bottle of lucas stop slip. it may fix all your issues.

  4. #24
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    While I appreciate the rust-inhibiting properties of a good oil coating, the mess it makes when I try to do anything in the engine bay or underside of the car drives me crazy. Maybe if I could clean up everything I'd do more hot rodding, but as it stands I'm not a huge fan of having oil soaked hands for a week following any car project.

    Which is a long way of saying I'm trying to clean everything as best I can whenever I'm working nearby. And if that means the driveshaft has lost its typical oily protection, I'd rather coat it with something that can do the same job.

    As for the stop slip, slipping isn't something I've noticed much of on this car. There were the two times it slipped while climbing out of a parking garage, but I wonder if that wasn't more of a fluid level or valve body issue. My understanding is that stop slip has more to do with worn clutch packs.

  5. #25
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    My Towncar puked a quart of oil every tank of fuel for 125k miles. When I did the engine I had grease up to my armpits and it took better than a week to be completely gone. When it caught on fire that greasy slime burned well enough to nuke the transmission. I'm not a fan of greasy nasty vehicles. They are deeply unpleasant to work on.


    that magic stuff really does more to swell up seals. It can't fix bad clutches but if the seals are hard or leaky, the potions can soften them back up so they seal again. It also usually has some detergents in there to clean gak out of the valve body so things un-stick.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  6. #26
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Made some progress on this project yesterday. The driveshaft has been painted. It's not my best work, but it at least looks better than the gobs of oil and dirt that were stuck to it before.



    I removed the extension housing after a little futzing around. Both the trans mount and crossmember had to be unbolted. The mount I actually pulled out, as one of the bottom bolts was directly behind it, while the crossmember just needed to shimmy forward and back a little to give enough clearance for the housing to come out. The tailshaft bushing does have two little nicks on it, though this hasn't appeared to mar the yoke yet. I'm hoping I can just sand them a bit to take any sharp edge off.

    There's also this white paint on the output shaft just behind the governor. Does that serve any purpose, or should it even be there?


  7. #27
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    possibly some factory QC mark, or maybe a color ID to indicate the long output shaft vs the short.

    looks like the splines are dry, so maybe the O ring wasn't leaking. I'd expect the splines to be wet if fluid was getting past that.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  8. #28
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    The splines were definitely wet. Most of the fluid has run off to the very end, and I've tried drying them a bit as well. I also don't believe fluid could keep dripping from the u-joint unless it was travelling inside the yoke, which would indicate an o-ring failure.

    It also makes sense if other o-rings have failed at the same age. I'm pretty sure the dipstick o-ring is leaking. There's a lot of fluid coming from the right side above the pan, and it doesn't look like it's either line to the cooler. I believe the shop manual says there's just one bolt holding the dipstick tube in place, which appears to go toward the engine from the very front of the trans case. Are there any other openings on the passenger side of the trans that could leak? The driver's side looks pretty dry.

  9. #29
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yep, one of the engine to trans bolts holds the dipstick. Just have to remove it and pull the tube up.

    Both cooler lines are on the passenger side too. If yours has the quick connect fittings those things are notorious for leakage problems. I don't remember if 87 had that or not. I think they were gone by 88, but 86 had it. If yours has it and they aren't leaking, I'd suggest not messing with it. They don't take kindly to being disturbed.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #30
    Donating Member massacre's Avatar
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    Great info here
    Thanks for posting
    ..

  11. #31
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Trans dipstick tube o-ring has been replaced. Despite how far up there that bolt is, it's not that difficult a job. I believe it's a 16mm bolt, but once it was broken loose it came out by hand the rest of the way. The trickiest part was just snaking the dipstick tube out and in through hoses and wires.

    The cooler lines are the quick connects. I've already replaced one that was leaking on the radiator. Wouldn't be the end of the world to do the ones going to the trans, but for now I'll just clean things up and monitor.

    My replacement dipstick o-ring was a specific match for that location and it fits snugly around the tube. For the output shaft and speedometer cable, though, I've just matched the diameter of the original o-rings as best I can. But both seem to be just slightly larger than stock. They fit within the metal grooves meant to hold them, but I can spin them around in place. Is it more important to match the previous o-ring's diameter in general, or to get the new o-ring snug enough that it is held by friction? I can see the outer surface of whatever the o-ring seals working to compress a slightly oversized ring into its groove, but I have no idea how well this nitrile stuff works in compression.

  12. #32
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I decided to go with the next size down for the o-rings. They're a bit more snug now, so I guess I'll find out soon if that was the right call.

    Extension housing is back on the trans, which is bolted back to the mount, etc. Driveshaft is back in as well. Before I came in for the night I dropped the oil pan to get a head start on the fluid change. I've noticed before that one of the pan bolts has RTV around it, which lead me to believe the fluid has been changed at least once and whoever did it stripped out that hole. But after I got the bolt out I looked in there and the threads looked pretty good. I believe the pan gasket has been a major source of leaking, though. Perhaps someone before me felt RTV was the quicker fix when the leak first cropped up.



    The fluid looks like it was in decent shape, though there's a decent amount of clutch stuff in the pan. I've got 3 1/2 gallons of Wal-Mart Dexron/Mercon fluid, plus an extra gallon of their 'high mileage' Dexron/Mercon. Don't know if whatever they add to it is worth putting in, or if I should just stick to the straight stuff.

  13. #33
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    If you didn't find a plastic fishing bobber looking thing in the pan someone has already been in there.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  14. #34
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    make sure the filter is not over-torqued. Apparently it can warp the valve body enough to cause 3-4 shift issues. I changed the juice in my black Mark VII and OD engagement got funky. Possibly having the same issue on the white one too. Its some small number of inch pounds, if you have a torque wrench use it, otherwise barely snug is probably about right. I over-did it using just a nut driver with fluid on my hands.


    the pan also needs to be flat. If someone cranked it down and buckled around the bolt holes it will never seal. I've hammered a lot of valve covers out for the same problem. Not sure the pan torque offhand but its also not very much. They don't want sealer either. That looks like the right gasket, its sort of like a pressed cardboard looking material. The sealing surface on the trans side also needs to be perfectly clean and not damaged.

    standard fluid should be fine. The high mileage stuff usually has some extra sauce in it to swell and soften the seals.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  15. #35
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    The service manual says 6-10 lb-ft on the pan, 16-20 lb-ft for the extension housing, and 80-120 lb-in for the filter. I somehow have two lb-in torque wrenches, one from Harbor Freight and the other is a little beam style wrench. I tried to follow the torque specs for all the trans bolts religiously and stayed on the low end for the filter.

    The pan is pretty beat up and the mating surface is definitely not flat. That's probably why it was leaking before. My replacement gasket, though, looks more like rubber than the cardboard stuff I took out. It might have enough give to seal. And if not then I guess I'll get to drop the pan again and probably replace it with a drain plug-featured one.

    I collected about 7 qts of fluid and added 8 back in - the standard, Wal-Mart stuff. Time will tell whether any leaks reappear.

  16. #36
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    can probably just do some hammer and dolly work to flatten it back out. Need a hunk of metal that will fit reasonably up inside the pan rail as a backer and a smallish hammer. Don't need to brute force it, just tap it back flat.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    make sure the filter is not over-torqued. Apparently it can warp the valve body enough to cause 3-4 shift issues. s.
    what would these issues feel like? My sons been complaining of 3-4 shift after we did a filter and fluid swap.
    1987 CV LX 5.0

  18. #38
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    really sluggish 3-4 upshift or just no upshift. Depends how bad its sticking.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

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