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Thread: Prudence, my 87 Town Car

  1. #61
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    "good amount of rust." For you, perhaps :P

    I'll show you a good amount of rust..
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  2. #62
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    Torch and make the collector nuts red hot. They will come right out afterward.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  3. #63
    fomoco panthers !
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    Use PB blaster, soak, let it sit for awhile, soak again. Stuff works great of rusty nuts and bolts. You can buy at Walmart, auto parts stores.
    Heat also works well.

  4. #64
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    I don't have much love for PB blaster or WalFart, both suck IMO. PB blaster is better than nothing, but I have had good luck with fresh or mildly used ATF or ATF+acetone though.
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

  5. #65
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Several treatments of WD-40 throughout the week did the trick and freed the cat-H pipe connection. I couldn't get the car high enough to pull manifold and downpipe out together, but the extra mobility did make it easier to get to the manifold-cat bolts and pull everything out. Boy are those old manifolds heavy. Must weigh at least twice as much as the Lincoln logs.

    Do these cars have pre-cats? I looked in the first chamber on the passenger side pipe and there was nothing in there. The passenger converter had been cut out and replaced at some point. Driver's side appears to be all stock, though I can't really see inside either chamber on that one.

    I also noticed that bolt-on replacement converters online don't have the upper chamber, just a single converter and pipe.

  6. #66
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Good to hear you got it apart. My method is cutting and/or fire, but the amount of rust I've had to deal with here is ridiculous.

    In stock form these cars had two cats per side. The direct fit replacements only have one cat per side which is supposed to be capable of doing what the two did originally thanks to technological advancement (or so I assume). The single cat direct fit replacements are much easier to work with since they free up some space. Not sure if you'll catch grief in CA during visual inspection (if the inspector is sharp enough to know the original configuration), but if the exhaust sniffer inspection is all that matters then supposedly you should be fine. No clue since there are no inspections here.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning sometime in the 2020s, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  7. #67
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I wanted to avoid the California smog question entirely, which is why the car is titled and registered in Minnesota. It may eventually have to pass Pennsylvania inspection if we end up moving there, but for now I'm dodging that bullet.

    It's interesting that a single cat could replace two when I understood aftermarket converters to be much lower in precious metal content. It's also interesting how wide the price range is for them, too. Do the cheaper ones just crap out sooner? Presumably it takes the same amount of catalyst to effect the conversion on a cheap one as on an expensive one.

    Are O2 sensors something I should be replacing prophylactically?

  8. #68
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Cat manufacturers recommend changing O2 sensors. This is likely because if you are replacing cats there is likely a reason which could be bad O2 sensors. They don't want to hear it if your new cats go bad because the initial problem wasn't fixed. In your case you probably don't need to buy new O2 sensors. Even though my old sensors were fine I bought new sensors anyway since I was already there and didn't want to fight the old ones out (again, lots of rust in Michigan.)
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, summer DD
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon - wannabe winter DD - returning sometime in the 2020s, I finally have an engine
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  9. #69
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    yeah, converters rarely go bad on their own, its usually overly fat fuel mix, oil burning, coolant burning, something like that.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #70
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    unless you've got 300K miles on it... then they can be worn out.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  11. #71
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    true, but still more likely they died because the worn out motor is huffing oil or dumping some extra un-burned fuel out the exhaust. Chicken and egg problem though.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  12. #72
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I don't expect to have to replace any of the cats at this point, unless one of them has rusted through underneath the heat shield and is the source of my exhaust leak. I wonder whether the one that was replaced wasn't stolen, considering this car probably spent most of its life in South Tacoma, and maybe the upper cat was hollowed out when the replacement was installed.

    It also seems that the part of Pennsylvania we're thinking of moving to only has a visual anti-tamper inspection, so I guess all four cats could be gutted and it wouldn't matter. Not that I plan to do so, but not having to pass a smog test is one less thing to worry about.

    What does have me wondering is the pipes that run from the smog pump back to the downpipes. Both are rusting out, but the one that crosses over to the drivers side was split in two and patched with some sort of foam-like connector by the previous owner. I can find the right side pipe (E6AZ5F235A) on Amazon, but the left (E6AZ5F235B) seems to be out everywhere.

  13. #73
    Beater gonna beat sly's Avatar
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    True enough.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)
    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

  14. #74
    fomoco panthers !
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    FORD AIR TUBE 1986-91 (LEFT) Replaces OE E6AZ-5F235-B Ebay #22433634375

    1986-1991 Ford Air Tube Left and Right Sides - OE E6AZ5F235A and OE E6AZ5F235... Ebay #323613403094

    Found this for you. Hope this helps
    Last edited by Mainemantom; 03-09-2021 at 11:28 PM.

  15. #75
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Well, the crossover smug pump pipe may be moot. I made another inspection of the cats today while cleaning rust off, and I had misremembered which upper cat was hollowed out. Turns out the only converter that appears to be intact is the upper passenger side, while the lower passenger, which is the replacement, looks like the Tasmanian Devil went through it. Both driver side cats have been completely hollowed out.

    So now I really don't know what happened. Someone was very deliberate on the driver's side, and someone, or maybe the same person, also went through the effort of putting in a new converter on the passenger side. But the bottom line is I seem to be batting 0.250 on cats right now.

    Which would explain why the exhaust always smells a little rich.

    But I'm amazed that this same setup passed Washington's tailpipe test a year ago. And it did it with a clogged PCV valve and non-functional EGR. It was high on hydrocarbons at idle, but it passed.

    It also seems safe to say at this point that the smog pump is contributing nothing.

  16. #76
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    the smog pump is there to warm up the cats quicker. The old style cats also sometimes needed extra oxygen to do their thing. If your lower cats are gone, the only thing its doing is pushing some extra air in the pipe, and mostly only when cold. Later cats are 2 stage, one side generates extra oxygen, the other side uses it, so it doesn't need the external connection.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #77
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Went on a whim to the junkyard in Hesperia this past Sunday. There was a '90 P74 Crown Vic that had come into the yard that Friday, and I was hopeful it might have a rear sway bar. Sure enough, it did, though I believe it's the smaller, handling package bar. But I understand that any rear sway bar is better than nothing, and for $25 it seems like it's worth a shot. I had to get past a black widow while taking the wheels off, my first desert spider encounter while living down here. The drums were covered in what I think were egg sacs and former spiders. Glad that wasn't my car.



    I also grabbed the washer fluid reservoir. Haven't tested the pump or sensor, but it does hold water. David, I know you had passed up one long ago due to broken mounting tabs, and this one's no better in that regard. But if you want it, let me know, otherwise I'll compare it to the '90 TC reservoir to see which one fits my inner fender better.



    Side question: the 90s Boxes moved some relays from the fender to the vacuum reservoir to free up space for the washer tank, but is there anything special about the way they're mounted on the 80s Boxes? Are they grounded through the fender or would otherwise not function if I unbolted them and let them dangle?

  18. #78
    fomoco panthers !
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    Was that junkyard in a valley like a dry lake bed? There are a bunch of yards there. Hopefully you got the bolts and spacers with the bar ? Black widows, O yes. Look before you work. Nasty bites . Do NOT kill a tarantula though. Big and ugly, but they are your friend.

  19. #79
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    No, it was the LKQ yard in Hesperia, which is along some railroad tracks. I have been to the LKQ yard in Victorville, or rather a little northwest of it. That one spans either bank of a dry river bed - or perhaps it's an arroyo, if you will. I know there are plenty of good yards out here, especially in the desert, but I like the way the LKQ chain will notify you of vehicles as soon as they come in, and the prices are all published online. Takes a lot of the mystery out of the day, which is important for me because any trip beyond Victorville is an all day event.

    I did grab all the hardware with the bar. But I'm planning to paint it before I put it in. Just need to wait for the wind to die down. There were gusts up to 50 mph today - one of them blew down part of our fence. Luckily we're on post and it's a rental, so not my problem.

    As for the black widow, if it had a spouse, it's a widower now.

  20. #80
    GMN Regular DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Pics or it didn't happen. Speaking of, you need to make us rust belters cry with photos of the all the "good" cars that are junked out your way. Wife and I went to a yard in FLA when we visited my dad and almost cried with the clean old cars that were discarded..
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

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