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Thread: Engine Out Service

  1. #1
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Default Engine Out Service

    While under the car last week I noticed coolant drops from freeze plugs on both sides of the block. There was no coolant on the ground, though, so I thought it might be something I could monitor. Well, after an 80 mile trip I found the radiator level was noticeably lower. It must only be leaking when the system is under pressure. Still, if two plugs are rotting out, the others can't be far behind.

    So I think it's time to do all the core plugs, which I understand requires the engine to come out. If I'm going through all the trouble, I'd like to do anything else that makes sense at the same time. The next highest priority would be resealing the engine and cleaning off years of oil and dirt. Get everything clean and dry in the engine bay and keep it that way.

    I suppose this would also be the opportunity to do timing chain and water pump. And remove the crossover tube from the smog pump.

    Are there any other big while you're in there jobs?

    I'm also thinking of doing this at the auto craft shop, which means the car will be wheeled outside while the engine work is done. As such, I think it'll be easier to pull the trans with the engine, both to make reassembly easier and to keep it from balancing on a single mount while it's being pushed around.

  2. #2
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Rear main seal and oil pan gasket. You probably don't have rust issues on trans cooler lines.
    Also replace any old vacuum lines if not already done.
    Did you do your engine mounts? I remember something of the sort.
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  3. #3
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    Might as well re-seal the trans as well. not too difficult, save for the shift/tv lever that has to be removed. Although thats not hard in and of itself. You could do the lower intake if you want, that often leaks at the rear, and of course valve cover gaskets. I pulled and re-sealed my engine/trans in 2018. Either re-use you motor mounts or find NOS... aftermarket ones dont fit correctly and youll hate yourself trying to get the engine back in ( i had to grind metal from both mounts with the engine already in the engine bay). I actually have 1 NOS motor mount sitting on my shelf...
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Edelbrock 1906 Carb+ RPM Intake, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

    +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

  4. #4
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    honestly I don't feel that having the engine out makes the motor mount job all that much easier. If you were doing lower control arm bushings, then yes. Access to the bolts is easy at that point. I did my mounts when I did the suspension.

    oil pan gasket would get my vote though. There are also core plugs on the front and rear of the cylinder heads. If the lower intake is leaking oil, it won't be easier with the engine in the car. If you need to change the AC evaporator, it'll also be easy with the motor out.

    The trans won't balance on the mount with no motor in. Has to be tied to something laid across the frame or the fenders for support.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  5. #5
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I had done one engine mount. The passenger aftermarket one fell apart on me during install. Vacuum lines have been done, as has everything involving the intake manifold. As such I'm hoping I can leave most of the engine harness connected and just disconnect the salt and pepper shakers.

    Rear main seal, oil pan, and something on the front of the engine are all seeping oil, so it'll be good to get those done.

    On the trans, I've just done the pan, extension housing, dipstick, rear seal, and speedometer. I believe that just leaves the TV cable, cooler lines, and is there some sort of front seal?

    Also, is it possible to take engine and trans out without discharging the AC?

  6. #6
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    Ive removed engine and kept ac system intact. Just unbolt compressor and gently lay everything on a fender blanket on your fender. Ive also left the power steering system intact at the same time...same deal...unbolt from engine and lay off to the side.
    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

  7. #7
    The Brown Blob 87gtVIC's Avatar
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    ~David~

    My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
    My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

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    Can confirm the motor mount interference (pioneer brand). The flange on the upper stamping in the clamshell is not formed all the way around the periphery, it hits the block bracket. You can eve see it in the stock photo. The trim edge pointing straight at you on the left needs to be flanged like it is on the back left edge with all the tooling marks on it. I did this with a crescent wrench and progressively formed it up. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...&pt=5552&jsn=1

  9. #9
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    I've also left the power steering and AC in the car to not have to deal with it. Easy opportunity to dump the PS pump out for a partial fluid change though.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  10. #10
    2 decades of DDing Box Panthers, now in a Whale VicCrownVic's Avatar
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    Since you mentioned that you need to do the rear main seal, make sure to put thread sealer on those flex plate bolts.
    After I transplanted my '89 engine into The Ice Car I ended up dropping the trans to get at what I unexpectedly thought was a rear main leak. Turns out it was leaking from those bolts, not the rear main (which was still good, but I replaced anyway since I was back in there) which dad and his friend replaced when they rebuilt that engine before I acquired the '89 from dad.
    Vic

    ~ 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis LS - new DD
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis LS "The Scab" - plenty of rot, backup/summer cruiser
    ~ 1997 GMC Yukon SLT - wannabe winter DD - many issues, returning sometime in the 2020s
    ~ 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis GS "The Ice Car" - Rotting Retired Winter DD
    ~ 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis GS - Rotting Retired DD
    Gone but not forgotten:
    ~ 1988 Country Squire ~ 1987 Ford Crown Vic

  11. #11
    I post a lot...
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    The PCV valve and grommet. make sure it has a good seal.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  12. #12
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    I forgot to mention the most important part of the PCV system, i.e. the part most likely to give you problems, the screen.
    03 Marauder DBP, HS, 6disk, Organizer Mods> LED's in & Out, M&Z rear control arms, Oil deflector, Blue Fuzzy Dice
    02 SL500 Silver Arrow
    08 TC Signature Limited, HID's Mods>235/55-17 Z rated Cooper Zeon RS3-A, Addco 1" rear Sway, Posi, Compustar Remote Start, floor liners, trunk organizer, Winter=05 Mustang GT rims, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R-2 235/55-17
    08 Escape Limited V6 Auto, Beamtech LED headlight bulbs,

  13. #13
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    Good to know about the PS and AC, and about the flex plate bolts. The PCV valve, grommet, and screen were the first job I did on this engine. They ought to still be good, but it's possible they caused most of the other gaskets to blow out before I changed them.

    In digging around the forum, it sounds like the holes on the back of the heads for the smog pump are 5/8"-11. Is this correct? And what length bolt do I need?

    I also see there are plenty of choices for timing chains, including a 'silent' option. Is there any trick to picking one? And should I be replacing the sprockets at the same time?

  14. #14
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutrova View Post
    In digging around the forum, it sounds like the holes on the back of the heads for the smog pump are 5/8"-11. Is this correct? And what length bolt do I need?

    I also see there are plenty of choices for timing chains, including a 'silent' option. Is there any trick to picking one? And should I be replacing the sprockets at the same time?
    The official unofficial smog delete plugs for 302s have like 10-12 threads on them, so not too long.
    I think I might be plugging the heads next spring, but with engine in situ. I'll be getting some too-long bolts, make one into a makeshift tap to clean the threads and the cut to size and put in with sealing washers. Supposedly there will be a bunch of carbon buildup in the threads.

    I haven't even heard of "silent" chains before, a chain is a chain. Pretty much all timing sets come with chain and sprockets. Just get a good brand double roller and you'll be set for the next 200k miles.
    Or go for a gear drive for the lols, it'll "almost" sound like it's supercharged!
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

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    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    I bet the silent one is a single roller with nylon gears. Don't get it! Get a double roller, cloyes seems to be a good brand
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Edelbrock 1906 Carb+ RPM Intake, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

    +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

  16. #16
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    The problem with trying to thread bolts in there is usually the holes are so packed with carbon you can't actually use the threads. The more sensible way is to take that crossover pipe, cut the ends off, flip them over, and bolt it back on as a blanking plate. That gets around having to try and get a bolt in there. Not so bad when you have the engine out and can use a tap to clean the threads but in the car, forget it.


    +1 on the double roller. I think I've got a Cloyes on mine. Not stupid expensive but not garbage either.

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  17. #17
    Lost and driftin' Arquemann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The problem with trying to thread bolts in there is usually the holes are so packed with carbon you can't actually use the threads. The more sensible way is to take that crossover pipe, cut the ends off, flip them over, and bolt it back on as a blanking plate. That gets around having to try and get a bolt in there. Not so bad when you have the engine out and can use a tap to clean the threads but in the car, forget it.
    Well if that works too, cool. It's free!
    1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, "Maisa"
    2008 BMW 530d Touring, "Femma"

  18. #18
    I'm an air-conditioned gypsy gadget73's Avatar
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    if you want to spend money on new gaskets you can, just in case zero cost bothers you too much

    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC SE, triple black (Timewarp) - poly front bushings, KYB struts and shocks, Holley SystemMax1 lower intake, SilverFox AOD valve body,

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Quote Originally Posted by phayzer5 View Post
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

  19. #19
    Carthago delenda est Lutrova's Avatar
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    I'll give the carbon-filled threads a shot, just because I'll have the engine out and I don't know if I may someday have to reinstall that crossover pipe.

    Gaskets and parts have been ordered. Picked up the Cloyes 9-1138 "Street True Roller" chain set. Went Fel-Pro on all the seals and gaskets, one piece rubber for the oil pan. Gates 43050 cast iron water pump. Amazon and our credit card were running some sort of promotion, so it was all 50% off.

    I'm still going back and forth on whether to pull the engine and trans as one unit or one at a time. I feel that separating and joining the two out of the car would make things a lot easier, but getting enough clearance in the engine bay could be difficult. Has anyone on this forum pulled them together before?

  20. #20
    P31 Pursuit Car Brown_Muscle's Avatar
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    I've always removed them together. Clearance isn't a problem as long as you have an engine hoist thats tall enough, and you have an engine leveler. I removed my hood to take them out- but according to others you dont need to. It's only 4 bolts so i thought it worth it
    -Phil



    +1982 Ford LTD-S Police Car. Built 351w, Trickflow 11R 190 Heads, Edelbrock 1906 Carb+ RPM Intake, WR-AOD, Full exhaust headers to tails. 3.27 Trac-Lok Rear. Aluminum Police Driveshaft. Speedway Springs+Bilstein Shocks, Intermediate Brakes, HPP Steering Box.

    +2003 Acura CL Type S 6-speed

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