Nick's 1987 Town Car

[LithiumCobalt]

That is absurd.

That's kind of what I thought. I've been emailing every few weeks to see what is up. So far I've been pretty polite about it. Afraid if I start getting shitty he will take even longer. Emailed him a few weeks ago and said just send it back whether fixed or not.

[gadget73]

Since I haven't been updating shit, here goes.

Are these cars particularly picky about brand/size of wires? I went with Motorcraft wires last time around. From what I recall, the car ran better with the old shit on there than the new shit. Have to check vacuum lines to the canister solenoid too and do the cylinder balance test with my code reader.

somewhat, though basically it just has to be a good quality wire. Usually if you have wire problems, you'll feel it under load at lower RPM. Bucking and misfires going up hills, etc. Have you ever checked the timing? If the timing mark dances around, it may need a chain. Most 86+ cars have double rollers, but a few came through with the crappy single row one. A sloppy chain will sometimes present as the timing mark not holding steady, but it will make it buck and surge at times too. The ignition and fuel injector timing runs out of the distributor, so any slop going on there will make things act dumb. Another test is to rock the crank back and forth and see how much rotation you get on the crank before the rotor follows. It should be almost none, but if you have an appreciable amount its not a good thing. These are interference engines. If the chain is a crappy one and it jumps, it will smash valves.

[jaywish]

I did really mean air shock but both do have sensors.

[LithiumCobalt]

somewhat, though basically it just has to be a good quality wire. Usually if you have wire problems, you'll feel it under load at lower RPM. Bucking and misfires going up hills, etc. Have you ever checked the timing? If the timing mark dances around, it may need a chain. Most 86+ cars have double rollers, but a few came through with the crappy single row one. A sloppy chain will sometimes present as the timing mark not holding steady, but it will make it buck and surge at times too. The ignition and fuel injector timing runs out of the distributor, so any slop going on there will make things act dumb. Another test is to rock the crank back and forth and see how much rotation you get on the crank before the rotor follows. It should be almost none, but if you have an appreciable amount its not a good thing. These are interference engines. If the chain is a crappy one and it jumps, it will smash valves.

Hmm, this is yet more stuff for me to check. The car only has 52k miles on it, though. Is it possible for a timing chain to be that sloppy at that mileage? I don't seem to recall any drivability problems before I fixed the pcv system and changed the plugs, wires, cap and rotor so it must be something to do with those items or the fact that I disturbed something. No bucking or hesitating while under load so the wires must be fine. Only while coasting or decelerating. Not sure what's going on. I hate to throw parts at it, but simply definitely isn't right.

[gadget73]

I've seen them so bad at 85k on '85's that they would barely stay running. Its more of an age thing. Worth a check at any rate. If it shows no signs of slop, I'd move on to other things. Hopefully it shows no signs of anything being wrong, but you want to know before it fails horribly if something is up.

Have you ever pulled the EGR solenoid's cap off and cleaned the filter out? Try that, and shoot some wd40 or whatever down the tube that sticks into the filter while the foam piece is out. If the egr is doing funny stuff, it will make it run oddly. The evap solenoid is open when coasting. If the charcoal canister under the battery is busted open, or if the lines to it are falling apart that may also cause it to hitch when coasting. Also, the AOD is direct coupled in drive and overdrive. It tends to be clunky and rough when coasting. Its possible what you're feeling is just normal. Check those plastic lines around the back of the engine out while you're in there. They tend to be very brittle, and its entirely possible that one cracked while working on other things.

[LithiumCobalt]

Well, haven't updated anything in a while and it's mostly because I haven't gotten shit done because I haven't had time. Saturday, I decided to dig in. The bucking bronco feeling has really got me disturbed so it's time to fix it. Loosened the belts and rotated the crankshaft whilst watching the rotor.....I noticed when switching rotation direction on the crank that the rotor did not immediately follow. I guess I have some chain slop. Doesn't appear to be excessive, but still worth opening it up to take a look. Took a few hours unbolting this and that and now I am down to getting ready to take off the balancer. How I get that nut loose without an impact wrench should be interesting.....

Here's where I ended up for the night. Surprisingly, it only took me a couple of hours to do this. Still can't believe I am doing this on a low mileage car..... I guess this will give me a chance to clean up the residue from the leaking valve covers that have already been fixed.....

[gadget73]

I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping that you will find something bad under the cover there. If it does have the plastic gear, just make sure its bits are all there. If chunks fell off, see if you can get them out of the oil pan so they don't end up blocking the pickup.

[LithiumCobalt]

Well, well, looky what we have here.....a shitty nylon coated cam gear. Luckily all of the teeth are still intact and not in the oil pan. Oh, and don't forget the stretched timing chain! No wonder the car has been running like shit even after all the tune-up items were done. Keep in mind the car has only 52k miles on it. There's still a factory paintmark visible on the driver side frame in the engine compartment. Says Sep 18 1986 on it. This must have been one of the first 87's off the line.

[LithiumCobalt]

Next question. Can anyone explain what the hell the difference is between the five different Cloyes timing sets on Rock Auto that supposedly fit my car and which one is the best for my application? Both of the first two show double rollers in the photos. Appears the only difference is the color of the metal. One is supposed to be alloy, the other steel. The last three must be for something other than a LOPO?

[sly]

the 4th one is for engines with a mechanical fuel pump. Not sure about all the rest and why the price difference. I'd go with the first one that says double roller as that one will definitely last the longest.

[LithiumCobalt]

Apparently 91138 is made from steel and 100% in the USA with a lifetime warranty. The 3057X is alloy steel with a one year warranty, likely made in China since it does not list country of origin. Guess I am going with 91138 unless there's a reason to spend four to eight times as much on the other options.

[gadget73]

The C3057X appears to be single row. Basically a steel version of the POC you have.

The 91138 looks to be the double roller, which is effectively a stock replacement for most 86+ engines.

not sure whats $100 better on the 93138. Description implies its some sort of premium more precise version or somesuch.

the 93135 lets you dial in the cam position precisely. You don't need this.

I'd probably stick a 91138 on there and call it square. It would be a hell of a lot better than the stock nonsense and would be pretty much the same as what that engine should have had if Ford hadn't randomly stuck their head back in their ass for a while when making your car.

[LithiumCobalt]

Thanks guys. A 91138 it is. Does the timing chain look excessively stretched or stretched enough just to F things up?

[gadget73]

enough to make it act dumb I'd say. I think the book spec is 1/2" deflection either way max. Looks like you're right about there.

[Piece-it pete]

My old 85 was like that, maybe worse, and I had a really odd stumblish thing going on cruising at speed, minor though. I used the C3057X IIRC, it was dbl, but for a couple bucks more I'd have bought the USA one too. [edit - and the rollers on the chain were welded, not solid]

Pete