Info on factory 4v intake manifolds?

[Mercracer]

Someone on here is running an Edelbrock Torker in his box, can't remember who, with good results. What would be better (more area under the curve), RPM Air Gap or the Torker?

RPM. The Torker is only needed for high RPM and/or nitrous and is an inferior intake in any application compared to a Victor Jr which gives up less torque due to its more modern design.

[1987cp]

The Performance RPM, Weiand Stealth, Offenhauser 360, etc. are the mildest suitable intake for a performance build. You need to match your gears, converter and cam together to achieve the performance level that suits your goals.

After swapping from the 360 Equa-Flow to the Performer 289 and experiencing a huge increase across the board, I'm very interested to see how the 360 works with fatter cams (say, E303 or hotter).

[gadget73]

There already have been several dyno tests on 302 and 351W motors and the currently available intakes. You guys should check out Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords magazine and any other Ford performance magazines. Get in the mind set that a Crown Vic is a heavy Mustang and you will realize that everything that you are pondering to do has already been done hundreds of times and more.

The Performance RPM, Weiand Stealth, Offenhauser 360, etc. are the mildest suitable intake for a performance build. You need to match your gears, converter and cam together to achieve the performance level that suits your goals.

What he said. People have been building SBF engines for 40 years, the actual car the motor sits in is mostly irrelevant, the engines are the same. Might need to adjust the desired power range of the cam and the gear selection according to the weight of the vehicle but the parts selections and dyno results will still be valid.

[turbo2256b]

Someone on here is running an Edelbrock Torker in his box, can't remember who, with good results. What would be better (more area under the curve), RPM Air Gap or the Torker?

I have flow tested almost all the edelbrock intakes for the 302. There is basicly no flow differance between the air gap and the RPM. In fact I believe the air gap produces a bit less or about the same power at a bit lower RPM than the RPM intake. The differance about 5 HP. The RPM intake will produce a bit broader and higer torq curve also about 500RPM more

[turbo2256b]

I will now give you a seat of the pants compairison of the RPM, Air Gap, and the Torker II.

First I need to explain some thing about intakes. These 3 intakes are basicly designed for stock heads with cam changes edelbrock recommends for each.
It dosent matter wether you have a Ford, Dodge, Chevy, or what size engine these manifolds all flow the same in relation the engine size. An RPM maifold for a SBC, SBF or a SBChry all flow an average of about 170 CFM.

So our cars our heavy this test was done on a boat.
Getting out of the water is like taking your car to the drags and launching it with another GM or CV in tow. Then releasing it some were around the 1/8 mile mark (this is similer to the boat getting on plane) at this point your ccar would still have to bee going up hill to match the waters drag onn the boat hull.

Took a stock 454 330 HP mercruser engine. Only mod was a 830 Holley and a RPM intake. Engine had 400 HRS on it. With no other change swapped heads for some Edelbrock Oval port heads. Not significant but the heads had to be pocket ported to reach Edelbrocks posted flow numbers.

First run seat of the pants fell was not much change retaing the RPM manifold also tried a 750 Holley could not feel any differance over the 830. Bottom line it felt about the same as before the head swap lots of bow rise slow to get out of the water.
Next a Torqer II was installed with the 830 Holley the boat jumped out of the water accelerater at an unbeelievable rate got up onn plane almost istantly. Tried the 750 Holley on the Torker also could not tell it from the 830.
Next installed the Air Gap tried both carbs it ran the same as the RPM which ran the same as the boat did basicly beforee the head swap.

This realy shows how air flow increases affect power in respect to cams. Cam's have more to due with changing the RPM band not air flow.

So a Torker with any cam you might use would kill low end but with a set of propeerly ported heads can be a kkiller combo. A low performance dual plane on the same porte d heads gets yo ulittle if any improvment.

[OVERKILL]

I will now give you a seat of the pants compairison of the RPM, Air Gap, and the Torker II.

First I need to explain some thing about intakes. These 3 intakes are basicly designed for stock heads with cam changes edelbrock recommends for each.
It dosent matter wether you have a Ford, Dodge, Chevy, or what size engine these manifolds all flow the same in relation the engine size. An RPM maifold for a SBC, SBF or a SBChry all flow an average of about 170 CFM.

So our cars our heavy this test was done on a boat.
Getting out of the water is like taking your car to the drags and launching it with another GM or CV in tow. Then releasing it some were around the 1/8 mile mark (this is similer to the boat getting on plane) at this point your ccar would still have to bee going up hill to match the waters drag onn the boat hull.

Took a stock 454 330 HP mercruser engine. Only mod was a 830 Holley and a RPM intake. Engine had 400 HRS on it. With no other change swapped heads for some Edelbrock Oval port heads. Not significant but the heads had to be pocket ported to reach Edelbrocks posted flow numbers.

First run seat of the pants fell was not much change retaing the RPM manifold also tried a 750 Holley could not feel any differance over the 830. Bottom line it felt about the same as before the head swap lots of bow rise slow to get out of the water.
Next a Torqer II was installed with the 830 Holley the boat jumped out of the water accelerater at an unbeelievable rate got up onn plane almost istantly. Tried the 750 Holley on the Torker also could not tell it from the 830.
Next installed the Air Gap tried both carbs it ran the same as the RPM which ran the same as the boat did basicly beforee the head swap.

This realy shows how air flow increases affect power in respect to cams. Cam's have more to due with changing the RPM band not air flow.

So a Torker with any cam you might use would kill low end but with a set of propeerly ported heads can be a kkiller combo. A low performance dual plane on the same porte d heads gets yo ulittle if any improvment.

Great info Turbo! We had similar results with a small-blocked S10 that belongs to my buddy's dad. Basically:

Engine is a .040 over 350 2-bolt block w/flat-tops
Heads are World Products Sportsman II's
Cam was a Comp Cams XE (Extreme Energy) series, I believe a 268H (flat tappet)
Rockers were Crane 1.6 ratio stud-mount
Tranny is a race-prepped TH350 w/3,000RPM stall
Rear-end is a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer, 3.73 with Trac-Lok and disk brakes.

Intakes tried:
Edelbrock Performer
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Edelbrock Performer RPM airgap clone (Professional Products)
Edelbrock Torker (the original, not II)
Weiand Stealth

Carb's tried:
Quick Fuel prepped Holley 4160 w/Vac secondaries
Holley 650DP
Edelbrock "750" (Carter)

Results:
The Performer would make the truck obliterate the tires, but would quickly run out of steam at any RPM past 4,000.

The Performer RPM would "pull" to about 5,000RPM but you could feel it start to peter off beyond that point.

The Torker would pull to ~6K and the truck generally felt a lot stronger through the entire power band except off-idle, where the other two "Performer" intakes felt a touch stronger. The best track results were generated with this intake.

The Weiand was kind of a mix between the Torker's results and the Performer RPM's, didn't quite feel as strong approaching the red line, but not quite as soft just off-idle.

The Air Gap felt the same as the RPM.

On Nitrous, the Torker also yielded the best results.

[turbo2256b]

I havet had a chance to test an original torker except for the 351C its never been changed. Lookinng at the torker originals annd the II my guess is the originnals might be a bit better onn lloww end.

[1987cp]

Lookinng at the torker originals annd the II my guess is the originnals might be a bit better onn lloww end.

That's the same conclusion I came to at some point. Can't quite remember why, though. Oh, that's right - in addition to looks - on the jason.fletcher.net page the Weiand 7515, noted to be similar to the Torker 289, produced somewhat stronger numbers across the board than the Torker II, at least on the mild motor being tested. Isn't the original Torker also rated for slightly lower RPM capability?

I assume the original Torker 289 was introduced before the Performer RPM, thus partly explaining the decreased interest in it in recent years?

[turbo2256b]

That's the same conclusion I came to at some point. Can't quite remember why, though. Oh, that's right - in addition to looks - on the jason.fletcher.net page the Weiand 7515, noted to be similar to the Torker 289, produced somewhat stronger numbers across the board than the Torker II, at least on the mild motor being tested. Isn't the original Torker also rated for slightly lower RPM capability?

I assume the original Torker 289 was introduced before the Performer RPM, thus partly explaining the decreased interest in it in recent years?

The weiand is a good single plane intake too. There is also a out of production Holley single plane intake that worked from idle to 5500 it was a real good setup for a stock to mild motor.

The first Torker intake was for the 351C back in the early 70's. Although I dont rembember RPM manifolds persay there were high rise 4 bbl intakes available some better than the RPM.

The torkers are a mid RPM intake. On the bench a Vr Jr and a Torker II flow close to the same. One fits under your hood and ones gonna need a hole in the hood. The Torker style often gets a bad rap not exactly shure why.

Big picture here is the Air Gap and the RPM for the most part the only differance is about 100.00 in price. You wont see it but on the dyno the RPM might have a slight advantage. These intakes work best on stock heads with low lift cams and medium duration @ .050 lift (around .030).

The Torker's and the Vr Jr's on stock heads loose tork for gains in mid to higher RPM's. Recomded cams often have a tad less duration than the RPM manifolds but more lift. If you have a good set of ported factory heads these manifolds do not flow as much as the heads and are low RPM manifolds in compairisson to the head flow and react about the same as an RPM intake on a stock head. If the parts are properly matched these single planes will allow power increases accross the board.

[Lincolnmania]

good info turbo!
what do you reccomend for an efi? 302 with ported e7's?

[turbo2256b]

good info turbo!
what do you reccomend for an efi? 302 with ported e7's?

The tubular GT 40 is a good intake. The lower might need porting in some aplications.
The stock lower ported with either the HO upper or the LOPO upper works well and either of the uppers ported works also. exactly what combo works best depends on the engine build and car weight.

We have 3 sets of BHP heads out there with 3 different build ups. Gadgets with the explorer intake and cam not shure of his injector size. Has the most restrictive of the engines ie mildest cam lowest flowing intake. His should dial in well as the componets match fairly well.

Mine with the ported lower , ported lopo upper, mass air, HO cam and 19# injectors is hindered by the injector size. It might not run much better than gadget's. But with proper injector size should produce around 350 HP.

Colin's engine should produce the most power the biggest cam heads are a bit better. He has a carb but with his cam and larger injectors in my engine build we would be close to the same out put. Around 400 HP

Since the BHP heads are hi air speed small port volume they provide improvements on each of these builds depending on componet matching.

[Mercracer]

Unported GT40 lowers with an unported Cobra upper have put Mustangs into the 10's. The Explorer upper and lower and Cobra upper and lower are very close in performance.

[turbo2256b]

Unported GT40 lowers with an unported Cobra upper have put Mustangs into the 10's. The Explorer upper and lower and Cobra upper and lower are very close in performance.

Aparently they dont flow as much as my ported stock lowers or gadgets car would have the issues i am havinng with inadiquit fuel delivery.

[Mercracer]

Aparently they dont flow as much as my ported stock lowers or gadgets car would have the issues i am havinng with inadiquit fuel delivery.

:confused:

The intake is only going to flow what the demand from the engine is............

More flow is irrelevant if you only have a 150HP motor...

[turbo2256b]

:confused:

The intake is only going to flow what the demand from the engine is............

More flow is irrelevant if you only have a 150HP motor...

I have a bit more than 150 hp engine in my case. Dont think i have been refering to any builds that have only the ability to put out 1150 hp. Put your money up and knowlege againts the shop car at milan drag way any time. Tired of your naysayer ways