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High then erratic idle, now stalling out.

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    #1

    High then erratic idle, now stalling out.

    I'm really am starting to lose my patience. The car has been acting odd lately as I wrote in my "Car was acting a little psycho" thread. Initially, the idle started racing at startup, at least 2-3,000 rpm. I got lots of codes, 12, 23, 94, 44, and 34. The car settled down some, but would still surge some and go a little high. The codes were cleared, though they came right back, and idle was ok. Then while scanning I got more codes: 13, 16, and 21. I cleaned the two main EEC harnesses next to the firewall, also got to break of the clipswhile doing this. After I got the plugs back together and started the car it had another problem. Now it starts, idles ok for about 20 secs, goes up and down erratically, then stalls... everytime. Please give me some ideas/suggestions, I really don't have the backprobe tools to test the tps, egr, or air bypass. Can I rig something up to a the voltmeter to do this, there doesn't seem to be any room on the plugs. I can't try unplugging the air bypass because the car stalls before I can even try. I have no electronics experience so please bear with me. Also is there anyway I can replace the plug on the EEC harness, snag a junkyard one? Seems the more I try, the worse it gets and I'm really frustrated. Thanks
    sigpic
    1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
    Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.
    Tags: None
    #2
    you reset the codes by disconnecting the battery correct? when you reset the codes you also reset the computer.. my suggestion would be to drive it and let it relearn everything not keep disconnecting the battery to get rid of codes and wonder why it runs like shit right after you hook the battery back up.
    Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will promptly forget that he once did not know, and proceed to call anyone who asks, a n00b and flame them on the boards for being stupid.

    Comment

      #3
      I use an un-bent paperclip as a back probe. Just push it into the rubber on the back part of the plug. Might have to wiggle it around till you get a reading but it is do-able with a bit of patience. I use a small jumper wire with alligator clips on it to hook it to the volt meter, but some meters have thread-on alligator clips.

      13 is can't control idle (low)
      16 is IDM signal not received. or RPM too low to perform HEGO test. depending if the motor is running or not. I ave no idea what an IDM signal is.
      21 isECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.

      The ECT can cause all sorts of havoc with the idle if its bad.
      Last edited by gadget73; 09-10-2007, 12:13 AM.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Everything looks like voodoo if you don't understand how it works

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
        I use an un-bent paperclip as a back probe. Just push it into the rubber on the back part of the plug. Might have to wiggle it around till you get a reading but it is do-able with a bit of patience. I use a small jumper wire with alligator clips on it to hook it to the volt meter, but some meters have thread-on alligator clips.

        13 is can't control idle (low)
        16 is IDM signal not received. or RPM too low to perform HEGO test. depending if the motor is running or not. I ave no idea what an IDM signal is.
        21 isECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.

        The ECT can cause all sorts of havoc with the idle if its bad.
        The IDM is the "Interstellar Destructo Magnet".

        Geeze, I thought everyone knew that.


        Some notes:
        1. If the TPS is out of range, it will misbehave like that...if you have adjusted the manual idle screw, AND the TPS, there is a potential for some seriously screwed up idling. I think the throttle blade clearance/opening is suppposed to be arond .010", then set your TPS. Don't touch this yet, if you haven't monkeyed around with it.

        2. IAC. Simply unplug it, and 'catch' the idle up with your foot, while trying to start it. If you can't keep it at a steady idle with your foot, either you have severe parkinson's, or there is something else wrong. You will register another code, but this is a simple way to help nail down whether or not you need to get another IAC.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by cld783 View Post
          you reset the codes by disconnecting the battery correct?
          I reset them with the scanner, then when they came back, I did it with the scanner and unplugged the battery.

          Does Radioshack sell back probes? My dad has a pretty decent voltmeter that I can use.

          Code 16 threw me some because I also read "1.9 & 2.5 - Throttle stop set to high - IDLE or Idle Set Procedures. 2.3L - RPM's to low -IDLE" in the sticky. I'm assuming they are reffering to the IDM in my case like you said.

          I didn't mess with the idle adjustment at all. I wanted to trying unplugging the IAC while idling to see what would happen but the car is stalling after 20 secs so I'm not quick enough.

          The car is at it's worst now after cleaning those EEC plugs, but I still don't understand how doing that could cause all this trouble .
          sigpic
          1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
          Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

          Comment

            #6
            replace the CTS, clear the codes and drive the car around for a bit.
            2003 Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, Dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 9/2011
            89 Crown Victoria LX HPP -- SOLD 9/2010
            88 Grand Marquis LS - The Original -- Totaled 5/2006

            I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by 88grandmarq View Post
              replace the CTS, clear the codes and drive the car around for a bit.
              Pardon my question but what is the CTS?
              sigpic
              1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
              Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

              Comment

                #8
                Coolant Temperature Sensor

                2001 Ford Crown Victoria P71 - "The Fire Engine"
                1985 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
                But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

                Comment

                  #9
                  sorry, I used incorrect terminology.... CTS = ECT.

                  anyway... replace the sensor that is causing the error code 21. reset the ECM and drive the car for a bit.
                  2003 Town Car Signature - 3.27 RAR, Dual exhaust and J-mod - SOLD 9/2011
                  89 Crown Victoria LX HPP -- SOLD 9/2010
                  88 Grand Marquis LS - The Original -- Totaled 5/2006

                  I rebuild AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75E transmissions....Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/North...48414635312478

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Thanks guys, I gotcha now. I'll probably replace whatever is throwing a code if I can't figure out exactly what's up. I don't know what testing will reveal, if I can figure out anything. Probably not the best method of correction but the stuff is old anyhow and the CTS was around 20 bucks. I just need to get the time to work on it.
                    sigpic
                    1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
                    Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Try cleaning the idle speed control (adjacent to the EGR valve on the throttle body) solenoid with carb cleaner.


                      Packman

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Well, got some parts in today. I replaced the Idle Air Control first. The plug points down so it was a bit more of a squeeze, but it works. I tried the car out after putting it on and the stalling was gone. Then I put on the new TPS. The car starts and idles fine and there is no stalling. I still have code 34 for the EGR. I have the EGR Valve but am waiting for the position sensor to come in. Is there anything special I should have done for the TPS when putting it on? I just popped the old one off, and put the new one on.
                        Last edited by 86GmLsCoupe; 09-18-2007, 08:19 PM.
                        sigpic
                        1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
                        Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Nah, they aren't really adjustable. As long as its somewhere between 0.7 and 1.2 volts with the throttle closed, the ecm will learn that as the idle position.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Everything looks like voodoo if you don't understand how it works

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Thanks, I didn't think so but it never hurts to ask right? I have the EGR, just waiting for the position sensor to come in before I bother replacing it. The car runs a lot better now with the new TPS and IAC. No stalling at all.
                            sigpic
                            1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
                            Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Okay, well I finally got the EGR position sensor so everything is replaced. I cleared the codes with the scanner and am still showing code 33 (EGR Valve closed / erratic or has insufficient flow). I'm kinda scratching my head now because both parts are brand new. Should I keep trying to clear the codes, check the gasket, maybe there's gunk is the spacer? I tried cleaning the ports on the spacer before putting the new EGR & sensor on. I'm lost. I might throw the old position sensor back to test it against the new one also. Thoughts anyone? Thanks
                              sigpic
                              1986 Grand Marquis LS 2 Door
                              Ext: Medium Shadow Blue Metallic, Int: Midnight Blue, 3.08 open, 235/70/15 Goodyear Aquatread III, Rebuilt AOD w/ Transgo Shift Kit, 3G upgrade from 95 5.0 Mustang, Walker Dual Exhaust w/ H pipe, Viper 5900ST alarm, De-smogged, Rear Civ. Sway Bar, and more.

                              Comment

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