I Need some opinions

[P72Ford]

The Red Box has nearly 125K on it. As of late I have pushed and done alot of stuff to the car. I have owned this one a little more than a year, and I have done what some consider a retarded amount of work (I disagree).

Anyway, I have ordered new shocks, and they will go on soon, but this post is in regards to a performance mod (none have yet occured; except for the cat back). I cursed myself with the VV, and I'm thinking I should dump it.

What I want to know is this. If I changed the intake and carb on here, would I really gain anything. I am thinking Edel. 1406 (600cfm w/ elec choke), and Edel. 2182 (I think). That should be the performer intake. Obviously I'd use the Lokar kit for the AOD. Would this set up net me anything with the inadequate heads in place, or am I pissing in the wind? If I do this, I'll be doing a new exhaust (front to back w/ shorties), next year. At the same time I would do this I would de-smog the car (as much as possible; not that this will give any gain).

For people who have done such mods, will this be worth anything? Mind you, its a 2.73 so accleration isn't that swell right now (0-60 in 12-13). I know my best bet would be a gear swap, but that may occur with the trak lok swap next summer too. With headers and all, and then the gear swap, what should I pick up, being entirely realistic? Obviously I'm not expecting to half my 0-60.

Also, while I'm asking, what about MPG? I currently can't get more than 15 out of it. Will the 4bbl make this suffer, and if so, how bad (I'm not typically a leadfoot)? I do about 75% highway driving too.

And, for the realists: Is it worth doing on a car with 125K?

[Nathan in MI]

Yeah, you'd see some gain from it. Your heads should be E5AE castings, which are surprisingly similar to E7s, complete with the enormous air injection bump in the exhaust ports. As long as you've got the intake off and you'll be taking the exhaust manifolds off, you'd probably be wise to pull those heads off as well and at the very least grind those bumps out. They won't flow like professionally ported heads, but certainly better than stock.

The carb/intake combination sounds good (the Edelbrock Performer is the dual plane, yes? I can never keep that stuff straight.). Gear change should definitely be a consideration. If you're doing a lot of highway, though, you might be wise to consider 3.27s rather than 3.55s. Just as a matter of interest, with everything else bone stock on the car, when I swapped out my 2.73s for 3.55s, I went from 13 sec. 0-60 to about 11 seconds. Not an earth shattering gain, but still better. Now I have ported and polished heads, HO headers, and an Edelbrock cam (.448"/.472", 204*/214*). Still running the stock intake with the VV, though, since I ran out of time to do the 4 bbl swap. I haven't timed my 0-60 with the new engine bits, but it's made a noticeable improvement as well.

Hope in all these ramblings you find at least a small nugget of useful information.

[packman]

From what I have read this sounds like a daily driver. Otherwise I would tell you to convert that engine back to an EFI and get the HO setup. Same performance if not more with increased gas mileage to boot. As far as a carb'd set up goes, I am not really sure because I haven't owned a 4 bbl car in a while. This is just a suggestion though and should not be taken too seriously as I am not a mechanic by any means.


Packman

[phayzer5]

If my putting ported e7 heads under a CFI induction system wasn't an exercise in futility, they your's shure as hell wont be

[Tiggie]

Teh faster I drive my VV car, the better MPG gets (with 3.08's). @ 55MPH, I average about 15ish, like you. @ 70MPH, I've gotten over 22MPG with it. That was with the stock tranny (new trans won't drift down hills like the old one for some reason). A gear change would probably do my car some good, but I wouldn't expect much more than ~18MPG out of a 351 on the best day. My guess is a 4-bbl wouldn't get much if any worse than the 15 you are getting now.

Check the health of your engine first. The engine in my '82 sounded fine when I got it, and I thought it was a solid base to build on (115K at that time). But I checked the oil pressure (bad), compression (good), and leakdown (good), and generally looked inside the valve covers (yuck), and decided the motor was close to needing some freshening, mostly the bearings. Apparently, I was right because it has a death knock now (124K).

If your engine is healthy, I think the mods you have will be fine. Consider a mild aftermarket cam, especially if you go through the trouble of doing some grinding on the heads.

[P72Ford]

Teh faster I drive my VV car, the better MPG gets (with 3.08's). @ 55MPH, I average about 15ish, like you. @ 70MPH, I've gotten over 22MPG with it. That was with the stock tranny (new trans won't drift down hills like the old one for some reason). A gear change would probably do my car some good, but I wouldn't expect much more than ~18MPG out of a 351 on the best day. My guess is a 4-bbl wouldn't get much if any worse than the 15 you are getting now.

Check the health of your engine first. The engine in my '82 sounded fine when I got it, and I thought it was a solid base to build on (115K at that time). But I checked the oil pressure (bad), compression (good), and leakdown (good), and generally looked inside the valve covers (yuck), and decided the motor was close to needing some freshening, mostly the bearings. Apparently, I was right because it has a death knock now (124K).

If your engine is healthy, I think the mods you have will be fine. Consider a mild aftermarket cam, especially if you go through the trouble of doing some grinding on the heads.

I may try to go with 3.08's (gears from a MarkVIII with IRS will work right?) or 3.27's. I don't want lots of gear. This is a total DD.

I appreciate the comments thus far guys. I do have a few more thoughts. I want to ditch the EGR, and desmog; what is involved in this? Obviously remove the pump, hoses, etc. I also know to cap the thermactor passages (back of the heads). Are there vac lines to chase and eliminate/ plug? Also, I took a look at the EDL 1406 carb manual. At the front of the carb there are two 3/16" vac openings. One says for cars with EGR (timed?), and one says for non EGR. I guess uits for a line from the vac advance. If I eliminate the EGR, which one do I use (stupid question?)?

A final question; what about the throttle cable? I know I need the Lokar kickdown, and probably a few brackets. But, can I use the stock throttle cable, or must I go with a Lokar as well?

The engine is pretty damn clean inside. I mean, the carb loads up alot at start up, and I'm sure there is some blow by. However, it holds 50+ psi of oil pressure (60 @WOT). Under the valve covers the engine looks like new.

[packman]

Duh!!!!! I should learn how to read some day. I just realized that your car is a P72 with a carb'd 5.8L and not the civilian EFI 5.0L. That set up that you suggested sounds right. I would go with the 3.27 rear ratio. It's not considered a lot of gear and will still get you decent gas mileage behind the AOD. I don't know what your financial situation is, but you could consider an EFI 1995 Ford Lightning set up. Though you might have to mod the to get it to fit.


Packman

[P72Ford]

I would go with the 3.27 rear ratio. It's not considered a lot of gear and will still get you decent gas mileage behind the AOD. I don't know what your financial situation is, but you could consider an EFI 1995 Ford Lightning set up. Though you might have to mod the to get it to fit.


Packman

I have considered the EFI froma lightning. I don't think it will clear the hood though. I don't have anything against a mild cowl, but I just don't have the time to mess with that set up. There'd be lots of downtime. Maybe next summer, but its still alot morerwork than a carb set up.

Thanks for the comments Packman

[88Vic]

I say you should try to find a low mileage 92-97 axle with posi 3.27. That way you'll get lower gears that still aren't too low but it'll be noticable, and you can have disc brakes. Win-win.

Also, I love to 4bbl idea. Some better heads and maybe headers instead of the crappy manifolds and you'll be good to go.

[torquelover]

I have done what you're talking about. The 3.27's are a good DD gear if you're on the highway a lot. Watch the driveshaft vibes, though! Next gear for me will be a 3:73 unless I go FI. The best my Vic has run was about even or a little quicker than my friend's GEN1 MarkVIII with 3.55's, Auburn Posi, and modded trans and intake. This exact car stock ran consistent 15.5's at Milan Dragway with both of us in it and the A/C on. So, around mid-sixes to 60 and around 15 flat in the quarter. My car is considerably more tired now, and cannot keep up with the modded mark VIII but is comparable to my stock GEN1 once off the line (The Vic launches harder than the Mark VIII). The intake and carb will help reliability, look cleaner, and will be aesthetically a lot more appealing than the stock spaghetti tangle of wires. Will it be quicker? Probably not by much, if at all, unless you free up the heads, bump the compression, and add more cam. You will get a throaty induction moan from it though, and these things open the door to future mods. I am using the stock throttle cable with my TV cable kit. I don't have the Lokar, but my setup (the last SVO/Total Performance kit they had in stock supposedly, circa 1998) is very similar looking to 1987cp's Lokar. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone EFI for a DD.

[1987cp]

EDL-2182 is the cam/lifter package; 2181 is the Performer 351 intake manifold. It's great for a mild car and I think it's good for over 300hp as long as you don't need to rev over 5500rpm. If you're really serious about mileage you may want to think about spending a little extra on the smaller #1403 carburetor (500cfm) and *maybe* adapt a factory 4V intake - but the Edelbrock piece is still appropriate for a variety of applications and is very easy to come by. Though come to think of it, Nathan mentioned recently having brazed shut the EGR hole in an old cast-iron 4V manifold (thus the inspiration for me ordering aluminum brazing rod to seal up the '85 Mustang manifold I'm sitting on) .... wonder if he still has it laying around ..... As I think you know, I have both a 1406 and a 1404 converted to a 1403 with the electric-choke kit, and I really like both of them.

At least in theory, a small 4V carb can actually get better gas mileage than a 2V because your primaries are smaller and should run efficiently on a smaller dose of fuel as long as you stay out of the secondaries like I seem to have a hard time doing. Even if you have just a 350cfm 2V, the primaries on even the 600cfm 4V will logically be 300cfm max, so at low-rev cruising speeds you've got it made. I know they're made of near-unobtanium these days, but have you ever thought of trying to scare up an Offy Dual-Port for cheap if you're really serious about low-rev efficiency?

[Nathan in MI]

Yeah, I've still got it around. It's nothing special, just a cast iron 4 bbl intake off of a 351 in an 80-something 3/4 ton Ford.

[1987cp]

hehe, it's special when you're choked with a VV and 2V intake! :p Plus in theory it should be a tad more efficient than the bigger-runnered Performer at low RPM. Be really interesting to see how my LTD performs once I get this thing on there.

[Nathan in MI]

Hehe...don't I know it!

[P72Ford]

So I should probably go with a different set of heads. I'd really like a set of D0OE's. Anyone have a set they want to sell (magged, no cracks)? I'd prefer not to use E7's, just because if I'm going to spend money and have them rebuilt, etc, I want to use the best heads I can. (Maybe GT-40's?). However, if I add better heads, whats going to happen with my MPG. I don't want to make a powerhouse. What about better heads with the stock cam? Obviously I wouldn't be optimizing power, but wouldn't that result in better MPG?

Also, do I need to upgrade the fuel pump and line (line form the tank to the pump too) if I go with that induction set up (performer w/ the 600)?

I think this project will require some more research before I do it. It will likely happen in the spring (over spring break).