is a dss racing shortblock any better than a stock one?

[Pirate]

the 347 actually has the same rod/stroke ratio as a 300 inline 6 ford engine so that is a non issue in my book as i dont think anyone would question the ford straight six reliability. the smaller piston on the other hand is a weak point in almost all stroker motors. if i get 100k miles out of it ill be satisfied, im not sure how much longer a 331 would last anyhow?

if something does go wrong with it or im not happy with the results i may go with a 331 when its time to rebuild, but at least ill have a nice top end to put on to a 331 already. ive seen a few 347s go over 100k miles so it seems like its all in how well you build it. it seems like the only real issue is the oil control problems due to the piston pins relative position to the oil control ring, which if you setup the engine properly, again shouldnt be an issue. and technically the engine is only going to be a 342 since the block isnt getting bored .030 over.

in my opinion for a street car i dont need a 351 based stroker like a 393. if it were a truck on the other hand that might be another story.

First of all, concerning the 300-6: Unlike the modern 302 block, the 300-6 was built like a freaking tank. In addition, even though the 300-6 doesn't have that great of a rod-stroke ratio, it does have a piston with almost double the compression height, which means that the pistons won't try to cock in the bore anywhere near as much. The block is stable, and the pistons are longer. The 302 block is flexible, and the short 347 pistons are a bit of a joke concerning the rod ratio....so I don't really see where there is anything of a comparison here. It's truly comparing apples to oranges, with the only thing in common is that they both grow on a tree, and have crappy rod-stroke ratios.



In addition, the 300-6 is a noisy motor due to two problems; the bore is straight up and down, allowing the pistons to bounce all over the place, and the rod-ratio ain't helping any. To be honest with you, I love the 300-6 for its underdog status (it's also a better truck engine than the 302), but it's quite possibly the last engine I'd use to have something quiet and refined under the hood.

[70torino429]

300 6 engines are noisy son bitches, and i agree they are a better truck motor, since ive had both motors in a truck and wish i never sold the one with the inline 6. like i said im going to try this 347 stroker and if i dont like it then ill try a different bottom end like a 331. that being said, will the eagle cast steel crank and hypereutectic pistons work fine in this application? since im not going over 500hp. im pretty certain the 400-450 hp this engine will produce will be more than enough power for this car compared to the crappy 150hp lopo thats in there right now. some insight on a torque converter and what parts i should upgrade in the trans would be helpful since the trans im going to put in is sitting on my bench downstairs as we speak.

on another note, pirate i respect your opinion on things like this alot more than others, since you sound like you actually know what your talking about unlike alot of people.

[mrltd]

http://grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.p...ight=converter

Scott has a great trans builder in PA,

this has lots of info

http://www.clickclickracing.com/tech.htm

[Pirate]

300 6 engines are noisy son bitches, and i agree they are a better truck motor, since ive had both motors in a truck and wish i never sold the one with the inline 6. like i said im going to try this 347 stroker and if i dont like it then ill try a different bottom end like a 331. that being said, will the eagle cast steel crank and hypereutectic pistons work fine in this application? since im not going over 500hp. im pretty certain the 400-450 hp this engine will produce will be more than enough power for this car compared to the crappy 150hp lopo thats in there right now. some insight on a torque converter and what parts i should upgrade in the trans would be helpful since the trans im going to put in is sitting on my bench downstairs as we speak.

on another note, pirate i respect your opinion on things like this alot more than others, since you sound like you actually know what your talking about unlike alot of people.

I'm not a big fan of the 347 with hypereutectic pistons. I'm sure that some guys have managed to get hyper. pistons to work okay with stroker kits, but I think forged is the only way to go in this situation....it's pretty much the last piston I'd go with on this particular engine.
Why go with hypereutectic pistons, when forged isn't that much more expensive?

I have a fresh 306 sitting in the garage right now, but I'm not sure I want to assemble it with the KB pistons that are on the rods. I will not be happy with what a N/A 306 will do for me, so I'm seriously thinking of getting some forged pistons before I think about putting it together, that way, if I want to add a blower, I can, or if I want to run nitrous, I can.
Might as well do it now, instead of having "I should have gone with forged!" moments for the rest of the engine's service life. I'm also of the opinion that the forged-piston 302's that came in the 1985-1992 Mustangs were the best 5.0 engines ever built, from a longeivity perspective, never mind what I think of the crappy E7 heads, or junk intakes that came with the H.O. engines.

Concerning respecting my opinion: I think all of you are assholes. The only reason I'm here is because I lost a bet with Jon, and have to give freebie tech advice to you guys for the next ten years.

[70torino429]

Concerning respecting my opinion: I think all of you are assholes. The only reason I'm here is because I lost a bet with Jon, and have to give freebie tech advice to you guys for the next ten years.

LOL

what kind of torque converter should i be running? since im assuming i wont be impressed with a stock converter behind this engine. ill most likely go 3.55 rear gears once i can find a 3.55 trak lok rear end.

the only good thing ive heard of hyper pistons is they dont expand as much and allow for a tighter fit in the bore, versus forged which tend to be noisy until properly warmed up.

[Pirate]

LOL

what kind of torque converter should i be running? since im assuming i wont be impressed with a stock converter behind this engine. ill most likely go 3.55 rear gears once i can find a 3.55 trak lok rear end.

the only good thing ive heard of hyper pistons is they dont expand as much and allow for a tighter fit in the bore, versus forged which tend to be noisy until properly warmed up.

I'm thinking a converter somewhere in the 2400-2500rpm stall range.

So far as the pistons go....I'll take the forged pistons and their idiosyncrasies over the hypereutectic pistons, anytime.

[70torino429]

I'm thinking a converter somewhere in the 2400-2500rpm stall range.

something like the b&m holeshot 2400 non-lockup?

[Pirate]

something like the b&m holeshot 2400 non-lockup?

It's not a bad convertor. I have one left that I'm going to try out in the Bird.

[70torino429]

ill give it a go then. someone said with aluminum heads i can run a higher compression ratio on pump gas? comp ratio should be about 10.5:1 but maybe slightly higher or lower.

[mrltd]

converter will depend on car wieght, gearing, engine torque, etc...

[70torino429]

the dss racing block actually doesnt seem like a bad deal. im going to read more on their machining specs to see if all they did was bore the block .030 over since i dont want to deal with different main bearing sizes. the 900$ price tag doesnt seem to bad for an already machined block ready to go though, and they claim it can handle 650hp with their main girdle..time for more reading

[70torino429]

i might try this kit since its on sale..

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

opinions on this kit?

[GilroyRacing]

you know, doing a stock displacement with a decent topend will be a lot cheaper, and not cost you that much HP...

I agree. Have you considered a cnc machined 302 block, stock rods, h.o. pistons, and either a set of aluminum heads or even a set of iron heads(gt40s gt40p, winsor jr or sr)? Get a custom cam, and a good intake, 65 or 70mm tb and 24lb injectors.

You will make plenty of power and spend less money.

Is there a reason to have 400-500HP other then the fact of saying thats how much HP you have?

Id match the combo i listed with a PA valve body, a better TC, and 4.10 or 4.30 gears and a posi unit.

[70torino429]

Is there a reason to have 400-500HP other then the fact of saying thats how much HP you have?

thats just the hp im shooting to make. my last car had about 320hp and i want to blow that out of the water. it would be nice to even pull a mid 13 second or low 14 second quarter mile with a 347 if i go to the strip a couple times. 4.10 or 4.30 gear???!!?!??! this is a street car im either going with 3.55 or 3.73s. i dont need 4.10 or 4.30s. the reason to have that amount of horsepower is to go faster, isnt that the idea of higher hp engines after all? i want it to be a fun daily driver. ive been told by plenty of builders the only reason to do a non stroker is if i want to save money, while im all for doing things on a budjet im planning to go a little wild with this one. and most renown engine builders will say the only reason to do a 331 vs a 347 is if i want to pay the same money for less hp.

[torquelover]

So, who are these "renown" engine builders, anyway? Also, about DSS. I'm within driving distance of DSS, and can tell you that everyone local tells me that they aren't what they used to be.

If you want fun in a Panther, don't look for 400-500 HP towards the higher reaches of revs. Go for torque, as much as you can get, starting real low and not dropping off until way up in the revs.

As for the kit from Summit, I'm jumping over to the forged piston side of the fence.

you know, doing a stock displacement with a decent topend will be a lot cheaper, and not cost you that much HP...

Add a positive displacement supercharger to what he said and call it done.