is a dss racing shortblock any better than a stock one?

[70torino429]

If you want fun in a Panther, don't look for 400-500 HP towards the higher reaches of revs. Go for torque, as much as you can get, starting real low and not dropping off until way up in the revs.

if you looked at the desktop dyno results, the projected tq is 430 ft lbs at 2000rpm and keeps building up to 490ft lbs around 5000rpm but it doesnt start really making good horsepower till it gets over 4000rpm. this setup has a pretty flat torque curve which is a plus.

[gadget73]

the dss racing block actually doesnt seem like a bad deal. im going to read more on their machining specs to see if all they did was bore the block .030 over since i dont want to deal with different main bearing sizes. the 900$ price tag doesnt seem to bad for an already machined block ready to go though, and they claim it can handle 650hp with their main girdle..time for more reading

You are aware that boring the block has nothing to do with the main bearing size right? The only time that is affected is if the crankshaft is turned. You need different pistons for a bore job, not different bearings.

[70torino429]

You are aware that boring the block has nothing to do with the main bearing size right? The only time that is affected is if the crankshaft is turned. You need different pistons for a bore job, not different bearings.

yes i realize that. i just wasnt sure how they set their blocks up. but ive heard mixed reviews on dss racing products. im hoping i can find a used 302 block that doesnt need boring if im lucky. the search continues..

[torquelover]

if you looked at the desktop dyno results, the projected tq is 430 ft lbs at 2000rpm and keeps building up to 490ft lbs around 5000rpm but it doesnt start really making good horsepower till it gets over 4000rpm. this setup has a pretty flat torque curve which is a plus.

Yes, I did see the truncated results. What engine specs did you put into DD? Something seems mighty strange.

im hoping i can find a used 302 block that doesnt need boring if im lucky. the search continues..

If you're serious enough about this and go with a used block, you're going to need to bore it. Out here at least, finding the 302 roller you quest for would be one heck of a quest indeed.

Ever thought about going with an aftermarket 351W block with smaller mains?

[Lincolnmania]

waste of money
start off with a freshly rebuilt 302......for the 900 bucks you are gonna pay for the block, i can just about build a fresh 302

[70torino429]

Yes, I did see the truncated results. What engine specs did you put into DD? Something seems mighty strange.

i dont have desktop dyno myself so i had a friend run it for me. but he used an e303 cam so i think theres room for improvement there. it was also with 1.6 roller rockers.
heres the rest of the combo we plugged in

4.030 bore
3.400 stroke
5.400 rod length
-5cc flat top pistons

afr 185 aluminum cylinder heads-
185cc intake runner
60cc combustion chamber
2.02 intake valve
1.60 exhaust valve

camshaft-
crane 444231/same as e303
duration at .050 intake/exhaust
220/220
lift- .498 int./.498 exhaust

1.6 roller rockers
30lb/hr injectors with a 255lph fuel pump
75 mm throttle body.
shorty headers with some flowmaster or flowtech mufflers, and high flow cats, either 2.25 or 2.5 true duals

also when we added 1.7 roller rockers it went up 8hp. im not sure how much of a gain there would be if the cats were removed, but there is some room for improvement on the camshaft

[70torino429]

will a stock oil pan work with a 347 rotating assembly or would i run into clearance problems?? will a stock displacement oil pump work as well? i also plan on using a main girdle to strengthen up the block a little.

[Pirate]

i dont have desktop dyno myself so i had a friend run it for me. but he used an e303 cam so i think theres room for improvement there. it was also with 1.6 roller rockers.
heres the rest of the combo we plugged in

4.030 bore
3.400 stroke
5.400 rod length
-5cc flat top pistons

afr 185 aluminum cylinder heads-
185cc intake runner
60cc combustion chamber
2.02 intake valve
1.60 exhaust valve

camshaft-
crane 444231/same as e303
duration at .050 intake/exhaust
220/220
lift- .498 int./.498 exhaust

1.6 roller rockers
30lb/hr injectors with a 255lph fuel pump
75 mm throttle body.
shorty headers with some flowmaster or flowtech mufflers, and high flow cats, either 2.25 or 2.5 true duals

also when we added 1.7 roller rockers it went up 8hp. im not sure how much of a gain there would be if the cats were removed, but there is some room for improvement on the camshaft

Well, you will sure have a nice motor for a Mustang with this exact arrangement.

Some notes:

1. Go with AFR's 165 head with the comp exhaust port work. You're choking off the heads with the cam, anyway, and the AFR165's make plenty of HP and torque down low.

2. You are shooting yourself in the foot with short tube headers.

3. The cam? If you absolutely have to have a small cam, get a TFS stage 1. Otherwise, you'd do better to get a custom-ground unit, or if I can find it, I'll see if I can dig up a specific 347 grind that's available off of the shelf.

4. Did I mention shooting yourself in the foot with short-tubes?

[70torino429]

as far as i knew you couldnt get longtubes to fit a panther?

as far as the cam, it was what my friend had presaved into his desktop dyno so we tried it with that, gaining a little lift with 1.7 roller rockers helped some. i do want something with good lowend but if you have a better cam for this in mind let me know, since i know the e303 is really nothing special and theres lots of room for improvement on it. if i could find a cam that would utilize the afr 185s more that would be great since these heads do have a higher potential than the 165s.

[1987cp]

Duce found that 3/4-length headers fit with a 351 block without a huge amount of trouble, though he did also ditch his column shifter.

Want good low end? 351, E7 heads, Performer 2122 cam. Quits by 5000rpm, but boy does it pull. Trying to drive that combo in the snow was a joke.

[Pirate]

as far as i knew you couldnt get longtubes to fit a panther?

as far as the cam, it was what my friend had presaved into his desktop dyno so we tried it with that, gaining a little lift with 1.7 roller rockers helped some. i do want something with good lowend but if you have a better cam for this in mind let me know, since i know the e303 is really nothing special and theres lots of room for improvement on it. if i could find a cam that would utilize the afr 185s more that would be great since these heads do have a higher potential than the 165s.

The 185's are overkill for a street/grunt 347.

[70torino429]

The 185's are overkill for a street/grunt 347.

would you call them more appropriate for a 351w or 393 stroker? as i might still entertain the 351 idea, if i can find an efi intake other than the truck one which obviously wont fit under the hood.

[1987cp]

Oh, you want EFI?

[70torino429]

Oh, you want EFI?

yep, you bet i do. trickflow makes an efi 351 mustang intake, but i dont know for sure if its reversible.

[1987cp]

mrltd, I think it was, discovered a Colony Park for sale with their 302 intake, and it had been reversed. Any particular prejudice against using a longer throttle cable?