I need help to pull my engine

[Ragtop429]

Bought a 1990 Grand Marquis with just 76k miles for $800, with a "bad coolant leak" per the original owner.

Turns out the cooling system was VERY neglected. Rusty and cruddy beyond belief. One of the freeze plugs was gone... just gone. The others that I can see are showing signs of being rotten, too. I really need to replace ALL freeze plugs before driving this car any great distance.

I am fairly handy and can make my way around an engine with ease, but I have never pulled a modern EFI engine with A/C, power steering, etc. I have access to a full shop with everything I could need. Engine hoist, engine stand, block and tackle on a sliding beam in the ceiling, even a full pit in the ground! But I just don't know what I'm doing as far as pulling a modern engine goes. Way too much crap to disconnect and get out of the way. The car is a nice car, so it needs to be done right.

Any chance that any of ya'all, comfortable and confident with pulling a fuel injected 5.0, are close to me and want to earn $100 or so (I'm flexible, but don't want to pay shop rates!) helping me pull the engine? I'll replace the freeze plugs and do other odds and ends, just need someone to help me get the engine out and then back in.

OR - I'd swap your time and labor, in exchange for my '85 Crown Vic. It's old, 139k miles, well used, and the engine is tired, but it still runs well (despite being CPI) and the AOD shifts well. Well optioned car with just about every option except the towing package. I have photos and full details available if anyone is interested.

My location is Graceville, Florida... 32440. I am visiting my family in the middle of BFE and just can't afford to take it to a Bubba repair shop and spend $700 to replace $6 in freeze plugs, then another $200 to fix whatever they break in the process.

Contact me if someone wants to help out. If I can't get the freeze plugs replaced soon, I am going to have to drive my '85 Crown Vic back home to Texas and be forced to sell the Marquis really cheap or dump it off at a scrap yard... which would be a shame and a total waste of my $800 bucks.

OR - Is there a step by step guide on pulling a EFI 302 out of a Marquis/Vic that I could use to familiarize myself with this project?

Thanks.

[1987cp]

As you suggest, disconnecting the wires and fuel lines correctly are the biggest worries with that engine pull. My usual favorite thing to not see during an engine pull is something dumb like a ground cable - working by myself (or more recently, with one friend helping), I get the engine completely unbolted and dangling, only to realize it's not moving, and make a frantic search for the hidden obstruction. Though when I pulled an EFI engine, I think it was the fuel return line that held me up. Either way, small but annoying.

Trying to think of members in the area in Texas ... do we still have that map on Frapper or whatever? Not everyone posted their location, but there are a few. Might also be able to scare up some support at CrownVic.net, CrownVic.us, or maybe even one or anther Mustang site. But, many of the rest of us are still happy to help with questions in this thread or in chat if needed.

[91grandmarquis]

Yeah, If you ar comfortable with what you are doing, you could just get a friend to help for the "man power" needed and extra hands, as for tech questions I know a little, but there are many here who know almost everything there is to know. hint ^ hint. I do have a manual that tells me how to completely disassemble the engine and I think pull it, ill check the name tomorrow. I believe it is a Hayes? or Haynes?

[Ragtop429]

Well, the wiring, hoses, vacuum lines, and engine accessories really don't scare me too much. Most of that is straight forward in my mind.

What scares me the most is probably the simplest: Disconnecting the transmission, then reconnecting without Fing it all up. I don't know what bolts to remove, what to leave in, and there to actually start at separating the engine from the transmission.

I have got to get something done soon, so I am going to get the car in the shop and start removing the simple stuff... Hood, radiator and shroud, fan, belts, hoses, heater hoses, etc. Will take digital photos along the way to remind me of what things used to look like before I started tearing it to hell! lol

Also, my location in my profile states Fort Worth... that's home to me. But right now I am in Florida visiting family. Bought this Grand Marquis since it was a NICE car and a low price. The guy told me it had a bad leak, and thought it was a lower radiator hose or cracked radiator... In my mind I was thinking, "Oh yeah, good score, quick fix!" Turns out it was a freeze plug gone completely. I replaced that one, luckily it was the only one easy to get to with the engine in the car. But upon closer inspection, others behind the motor mounts are seeping. So I'm sure ALL of them are soon to rot out or blow out after hours of highway driving.

[1987cp]

Gadget73 told me a while back that his trick for getting the engine disconnected from the transmission conveniently is to use a lift plate (bolts to the carb pad on a carb engine or the lower intake on a SEFI engine), remove the cross bolts on the motor mounts, and hoist the engine so that the motor mounts separate and the engine/trans assembly tilts up toward the firewall. At that point, you would stick a jack under the front end of the transmission and proceed with unbolting the torque converter and bellhousing in the normal manner. He says it's much more convenient than unbolting the engine from the mounts entirely and pulling it forward off the transmission with the tranny still in its normal position, but I've never actually done it this way, and have a couple worries about things like flexibility of the transmission mount (one of my cars now has a poly trans mount, so I'm thinking it would require loosing the mount substantially, and possibly popping off parts of the trans linkage and/or cooler lines, in order to obtain the required flexibility without inflicting damage).

There's also always the concept of removing the engine and transmission as a unit, but IMO the AOD is just heavy enough to make that rather inconvenient. (I had better luck doing it that way with a C4 combo.)

[Ragtop429]

There's also always the concept of removing the engine and transmission as a unit, but IMO the AOD is just heavy enough to make that rather inconvenient. (I had better luck doing it that way with a C4 combo.)

I have access to a shop that has a full concrete pit in the ground, so I'm tempted to pull the engine and transmission as a whole unit. The pit would give the room needed to tilt the engine/tranny without smacking the transmission on the floor.

That seems very straight forward to me and will be the route I go (I think) if I end up doing this myself.

Does the 302 have any freeze plugs in the bellhousing area??? Three on each side of the block. Some in the cylinder heads... Oh shit, please don't tell me there are some hiding back under cover of the transmission bellhousing!

[87gtVIC]

You can always label both ends of connectors (1,1 2,2 3,3 etc.) to ensure that everything meshes together correctly during reassembly.

[gadget73]

I don't think any of the electrical stuff can be plugged into the wrong connector. It was designed with unique connectors at every location for that very reason. Getting things apart is easy enough, just make sure you remove the torque converter nuts before trying to pull the engine, otherwise the converter goes with the flexplate and you have a pool of trans blood on the floor to deal with. I've always found getting the torque converter lined back up to be the most difficult part of the whole process. GM has tapped holes on their converters where Ford uses studs. If you don't get the converter lined up with the holes in the flexplate, it will not go together, and if you try and force it, you'll break the pump on the transmission.


Side question, can you get to the freeze plugs you need to replace without removing the engine? I think there may be enough room to get them all if you put a jack under the motor, unbolt the motor mount bracket and get it out of the way. There are the 2 plugs on the rear of the cylinder heads that you're not going to be able to do much about with the motor in place though.

[Pesty351]

If you ca make it to panama city I could help. But thats quite a cruise without freeze plugs.

[Ragtop429]

If you ca make it to panama city I could help. But thats quite a cruise without freeze plugs.

The one freeze plug that was totally gone was one on the driver's side of the engine, directly in line with the oil dipstick. I was able to remove the dipstick tube and pound in a new freeze plug. The car is now drivable and does hold coolant. I just do not know how long until the other freeze plugs will pop... I can see some have been leaking. So I want to replace them ALL.

Can't get to Panama City, though. I don't have tags/insurance on the car yet.

I appreciate the offer, though.

[Ragtop429]

I don't think any of the electrical stuff can be plugged into the wrong connector. It was designed with unique connectors at every location for that very reason. Getting things apart is easy enough, just make sure you remove the torque converter nuts before trying to pull the engine, otherwise the converter goes with the flexplate and you have a pool of trans blood on the floor to deal with. I've always found getting the torque converter lined back up to be the most difficult part of the whole process. GM has tapped holes on their converters where Ford uses studs. If you don't get the converter lined up with the holes in the flexplate, it will not go together, and if you try and force it, you'll break the pump on the transmission.


Side question, can you get to the freeze plugs you need to replace without removing the engine? I think there may be enough room to get them all if you put a jack under the motor, unbolt the motor mount bracket and get it out of the way. There are the 2 plugs on the rear of the cylinder heads that you're not going to be able to do much about with the motor in place though.

As long as there are no freeze plugs hiding in the bellhousing, I have concluded I am going to pull the engine and transmission as a single unit. I know the basic anatomy of a transmission and rear of an engine, but I have never separated the two myself and I am being a weenie... I'm scared to do it. I just can't visualize how to get in there and do it all. I think it will be easier for me to just disconnect the driveshaft, shift linkage, transmission support, and then all the crap in the engine bay. But that's just an uneducated guess!

As far as your side question goes - The one freeze plug that was blown totally out was luckily the center one on the driver side of the engine block. All I had to remove to gain easy access to it was the oil dipstick tube. I was then able to pound the new one in. But from what I could see of the others in the side of the block, they are weeping and rusted... So they are soon to cause problems, too. I really need to just get ALL of them replaced instead of waiting for the others to let go when I am 200 miles from nowhere. This car has got to take me home to Texas next month, so I have got to get this done one way or another.

I know about the plugs in the cylinder heads. Seems one on the rear driver side has already been replaced by the previous owner with a rubber expansion plug. Ya know, the kind you stick in and then crank down on the bolt till it fits tight.

I sure want to smack the hell out of whomever neglected the cooling system on this car. This is a car with just 76k miles on it, wonderful shape except the cooling system!

[gadget73]

nothing in the bellhouse. Just two on the back of the head, two on the front, and the 6 I think on the side of the block.

I've personally never gotten an engine and trans out of one of these in one piece, but I've also never had an overhead chainfall to do it with. Its just too much weight and length to do with an engine crane, especially on a towncar where the crane just barely reaches.

Use brass freeze plugs if you can. They won't rust. Slightly more expensive but I personally think its worth it. While the motor is out and you have the core plugs out, you might want to flush a hose through the open block sides to flush out the goo thats sure to be in there. It should help to clean up the cooling system. I went through this same stuff with my original motor, the coolant looked like the aftermath of a drunken visit to Taco Bell. The engine spun a bearing before the freeze plugs let go, but I'm sure they would have given up eventually. When I got it, it had a new radiator in it. I put maybe 5000 miles on it before replacing the engine. For 3 years after that, I could still flush garbage out of the radiator, and by that point every single item in the cooling system had been replaced, including the motor. I've since rebuilt the motor again, replaced the radiator again (cheapo plastic POS started leaking) , and replaced the heater core twice (first replacement was defective) and finally I can drain clean coolant out.

[Ragtop429]

nothing in the bellhouse. Just two on the back of the head, two on the front, and the 6 I think on the side of the block.

I've personally never gotten an engine and trans out of one of these in one piece, but I've also never had an overhead chainfall to do it with. Its just too much weight and length to do with an engine crane, especially on a towncar where the crane just barely reaches.

Use brass freeze plugs if you can. They won't rust. Slightly more expensive but I personally think its worth it. While the motor is out and you have the core plugs out, you might want to flush a hose through the open block sides to flush out the goo thats sure to be in there. It should help to clean up the cooling system. I went through this same stuff with my original motor, the coolant looked like the aftermath of a drunken visit to Taco Bell. The engine spun a bearing before the freeze plugs let go, but I'm sure they would have given up eventually. When I got it, it had a new radiator in it. I put maybe 5000 miles on it before replacing the engine. For 3 years after that, I could still flush garbage out of the radiator, and by that point every single item in the cooling system had been replaced, including the motor. I've since rebuilt the motor again, replaced the radiator again (cheapo plastic POS started leaking) , and replaced the heater core twice (first replacement was defective) and finally I can drain clean coolant out.

Thank you. Knowing now that there are NOT any plugs in the bellhousing (Maybe I was thinking of a Chevy 350?), I think I might first try to just remove the motor mounts and jack up the engine enough to replace the lower six freeze plugs. Maybe. I will have a better look tomorrow and see what I can do. With easy visual access to the one plug I did replace, it was still a bitch to pound the new one in and get it to seat properly.

Stupid question time and then I'll quit being a PITA...

1) If I want to jack the engine up just a couple of inches, is it just a matter of loosening motor mounts and jacking away? Or do I need to loosen anything down at the transmission? Should I disconnect the shifter linkage, cooler lines, anything else?

I have already done a LOT of flushing with the garden hose. The rusty chunks coming out were scary. I must have flushed for six hours and finally have the water coming out clear. I've flushed every which way I could... through the heater hoses both directions, through the heater core both directions. Removed the thermostat, filled 'er up, let it run till it was warm, opened the drain cock on the radiator while the hose was running in the filler neck... Revved the engine, then let it settle down. Closed it up and let it pressurize some... repeat the flushings. I did that for two days, about six hours total... The water circulating through is finally staying clear and no more chunks are coming out of the block.

I have all new hoses, a new aluminum radiator, new water pump, new thermostat to install once the freeze plugs are replaced. I am going to put in good quality antifreeze along with a corrosion inhibitor.

Once all that is done, this should be a nice, reliable car. It has just 76k miles on it and the engine sounds awesome and has great pep to it... Of course, anything has great pep compared to my '85 Crown Vic with CPI and 139k miles. I'm not used to driving a Ford that has working R12 A/C, doesn't leak oil, doesn't leak power steering fluid, and doesn't have worn out pitman/idler arms! lol

[86VickyLX]

Thank you. Knowing now that there are NOT any plugs in the bellhousing (Maybe I was thinking of a Chevy 350?), I think I might first try to just remove the motor mounts and jack up the engine enough to replace the lower six freeze plugs. Maybe. I will have a better look tomorrow and see what I can do. With easy visual access to the one plug I did replace, it was still a bitch to pound the new one in and get it to seat properly.

Stupid question time and then I'll quit being a PITA...

1) If I want to jack the engine up just a couple of inches, is it just a matter of loosening motor mounts and jacking away? Or do I need to loosen anything down at the transmission? Should I disconnect the shifter linkage, cooler lines, anything else?

I have already done a LOT of flushing with the garden hose. The rusty chunks coming out were scary. I must have flushed for six hours and finally have the water coming out clear. I've flushed every which way I could... through the heater hoses both directions, through the heater core both directions. Removed the thermostat, filled 'er up, let it run till it was warm, opened the drain cock on the radiator while the hose was running in the filler neck... Revved the engine, then let it settle down. Closed it up and let it pressurize some... repeat the flushings. I did that for two days, about six hours total... The water circulating through is finally staying clear and no more chunks are coming out of the block.

I have all new hoses, a new aluminum radiator, new water pump, new thermostat to install once the freeze plugs are replaced. I am going to put in good quality antifreeze along with a corrosion inhibitor.

Once all that is done, this should be a nice, reliable car. It has just 76k miles on it and the engine sounds awesome and has great pep to it... Of course, anything has great pep compared to my '85 Crown Vic with CPI and 139k miles. I'm not used to driving a Ford that has working R12 A/C, doesn't leak oil, doesn't leak power steering fluid, and doesn't have worn out pitman/idler arms! lol

Watch out for your heater core too. zif the sydtem was neglected, after all of this is fixed, I'd be willing to bet that that is the next thing to go...

[Ragtop429]

Watch out for your heater core too. zif the sydtem was neglected, after all of this is fixed, I'd be willing to bet that that is the next thing to go...

Shhh!! I fully expect that, but I don't want to deal with it. I am NOT in the mood to rip the dash apart, too, so I am just going to keep a length of heater hose, clamps, and a gallon of coolant in the trunk for bypassing when (not if!) the heater core starts to leak. Since Spring and then Summer is coming, I might as well just bypass it now and then replace the heater core before Winter comes around.

Being that this car has just 76k miles, there is already a list a mile long of little things to fix. Lube power locks that are sticking. Lube the power seat mech. Replace the plastic hickies in the power window motors (all four of them). New bushings for the door strike rods. Bushings and other rubber parts all throughout the suspension. Front brake calipers are about due to start hanging up. Check the alternator wiring. Replace the starter solenoid before it starts sticking.

I often ask myself just WHY do I like these cars so much when they have so many stupid little issues!