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    #1

    I'm A Little Lost

    Hi there, I'm a little lost.

    I mean, more so than usual.

    My 1986 Mercury Grand Marquis LS is in the shop due to:
    - leaking intake manifold
    - "BRAKE" lamp coming on when I put pressure on the brake pedal (car still brakes fine)
    - distributor shot (rotor bent, striking the contactors)

    So the intake manifold was removed, but one of the bolts snapped off a long time ago and is stuck in one of the cylinder heads. I'm told that buddy's gonna labour to get the bolt out but he doesn't hold much hope to remove it, meaning that that head has to come off and be sent to a CNC mill or something.

    So I spoke up and said, "instead of me paying 5 hours labour for something that probably won't work, why not just yank BOTH the goddamn heads off and redo the head gaskets?"

    Apparently they don't want to do that because it's hard to do or something.

    The "BRAKE" lamp coming on is apparently due to the proportioning valve's switch dying. He said he might have to jury rig the switch since that part is obsolete. He also made a somewhat derogatory comment about the age of the vehicle in general saying it was "getting too old". I was a little unamused.

    And the distributor, well, it just needs replacement. I have no qualm with that.


    So my question is: Should the mechanic piss around trying to yank the broken stud out of the head or should he have just added $500 to the bill and redone the head gaskets?

    Opinions, please.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Is the bolt broken off flush in the head? Even if it is, drilling and extracting/tapping it shouldn't be that big of a deal, especially if the lower intake is already off. And why would you replace the headgaskets if there's nothing wrong with them?

    And yes, most shops have no interest in working on 26 year old cars.
    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
      Is the bolt broken off flush in the head? Even if it is, drilling and extracting/tapping it shouldn't be that big of a deal, especially if the lower intake is already off. And why would you replace the headgaskets if there's nothing wrong with them?

      And yes, most shops have no interest in working on 26 year old cars.
      It was sticking out 1/4 of an inch from the head. He broke a drill bit trying to tap it and the bit piece may or may not have fallen into the engine block.


      Well, it occurred to me that if you're going to take off one of the heads, why not take off both and redo the gaskets?

      Comment

        #4
        the head gaskets don't really fail in a way that requires preventative maintenance. If it doesn't seem likely that the broken bolt is coming out and he has to remove one head though, I would definitely do both head gaskets. No point having one new one and one old when you're in that far. Fair bet if he's decent he can get the busted one out tho. If memory serves here, and it may not, those bolts are not blind holes, meaning the back side of the bolt can thread into the lifter galley. Most likely if something can be gotten in there to grab it, you can just spin it straight in and pull the chunk out of the lifter galley.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment

          #5
          Well he said he didn't "have much hope" in getting the bolt out.

          So I wanted the head gaskets done if the one head has to come off.

          Comment

            #6
            I wouldn't bother fucking around with the head gaskets. He obviously doesn't want to work on it and you're gonna pay out the nose if you have him do it.


            I don't see why he wouldn't be able to weld a nut onto the broken bolt but I don't have the car in front of me... If it works for exhaust manifold studs in a cast iron head, I don't know why it wouldn't work for an intake manifold bolt (that has basically become a stud) in a cast iron head. Weld a nut on there, heat up the bolt with a torch and go real slow working it back and forth. If he can get it out there's no reason to touch the gasket.


            I'd pull the bulb for the brake warning light.



            I don't blame him for not wanting to work on 26 year old cars. The cars are dead simple to work on but the jobs generally come with headaches like broken bolts and obsolete parts. He could be doing gravy work on 5-10 year old cars and not pulling his hair out by the end of the day working on yours....just trying to give you his point of view.
            sigpic


            - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

            - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

            - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

            Comment

              #7
              brake warning lights really ought not be ignored. Generally they are there for a reason, and thats to tell you something is wrong so you don't die. On an 86, it works off a shuttle valve that moves if there is a drop in line pressure on one side or the other. An air bubble or a blown line can do this.
              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment

                #8
                Well this year sometime I wanted to do an engine rebuild anyways (or get a crate motor with fuel injection and stuff), since he says my pissed-on rings are worn (blowby).

                I was gonna hold off on the head gaskets but since one head is likely coming off anyways...

                The BRAKE light issue was diagnosed as a damaged/worn proportioning valve switch, and he seemed confident in that diagnosis, so.....

                Comment

                  #9
                  Does the 86 use a fluid switch in the brake fluid reservoir like the later models? Might as well start with the easy stuff since no mention has been made of it.

                  Alex.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I have found valves in junk yards. Have also partly dissasembled them and cleaned them out. Found a lot of trash in them due to people not having the fluid flush out every few years. I often flush mine well after a autocross or two. My other vehicles for sure when I cant see the bottom of the master cylinder with the cap removed.

                    You might investagate some other shops next time. These guys seem to do more bitchin than work. Maybe all thier excuses are do to inaptness.
                    Doubt Scott works this way. Too negitive.
                    Scars are tatoos of the fearless

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Yeah if I were you I'd be looking for a guy who specializes in either fords, or old domestics/classics, or both.

                      85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                      160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                      waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                      06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Just as a point of general interest, what should I expect to pay for the intake manifold regasketing, the distributor replacement and the brake valve switch repair? Roughly.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          the lower gaskets are inexpensive, but do get the felpro permadry kit for that. the front and rear seal are the only reason. It will never fail. If the shop won't use them, find another shop. The labor cost will be large though since it requires a good 4-6 hours. The distributor can be swapped out in 10 minutes and the switch is 30 minutes tops. Labor is the killer on the lower intake just because you have to pull so much crap off of it.

                          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                          Originally posted by gadget73
                          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                          Originally posted by dmccaig
                          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            So less than $1000?

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Dunno about the brake valve but intake and distributor - heck auto MD puts the gasket at $150 at a dealer!

                              Pete
                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              For other types of inquiry, more information is required. Please press 4 to speak to a representative who can help you with your question. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.


                              2003 Grand Marquis Ultimate, the "Stealth Bomber": http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...-Grand-Marquis
                              1991 S-10, 'Bulldog', 2.5l 5 speed: http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...375#post698375
                              1985 Town Car, 'Faded Glory', gone but not forgotten. 84/87/91/97 MGMs too.

                              Comment

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