Yet another air conditioning thread!

[1987cp]

I'm trying to plan a retrofit of the A/C system in my Crown Vic because living without air in this stupid humidity in south-central Michigan is becoming just about completely miserable. So, I've been reading through some of the old a/c threads, and I think I'm at least getting the general picture of what's required to convert an old, mostly-functioning R12 system to R134a refrigerant. I know the system at least sort of works, since I tested it last year and found that it would at least work intermittently even though the system pressure was low. This summer it's doing nothing (didn't try bypassing the safety switch), and when I tossed a manifold on to check, the pressure was down to like 15psi from 25 or so last summer. Obviously, one concern is that I don't know for 100% certain that the hoses and other major components are still sealing, so it would seem that the observed leakage may or may not be due solely to the presumably-22-year-old O rings.

The basic steps I'm picking up on are:

- Purchase new desiccant can (dryer), orifice tube, and Viton O-rings
- Purchase R134a conversion kit consisting of standalone hose/gauge and (I hope) Shrader valve adapter, 3 cans or so of R134a, and can of ester oil
- Completely disconnect existing A/C compressor and turn it upside down to dump out mineral oil used with the old R12 refrigerant
- Disassemble all fuel-injection-style quick disconnects on the system and replace the O rings with the new R134a-compatible O rings (I'm assuming all the connections are right there near the compressor ....)
- Remove the old dryer canister and locate orifice tube in the bottom line coming out of the evaporator core. Replace orifice tube and install new dryer.
- Immediately reconnect all lines to keep dryer's atmospheric exposure time under 2 minutes
- Visit my neighbor and borrow his A/C vacuum pump to pump down the system as best we can
- Dump in the can of oil and 3 cans of refrigerant and I *should* be good to go.



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So, assuming I have the procedure right, I guess it's time to move on to assembling a parts list with actual prices and part numbers. This is looking to be a little daunting on my own, as I'm coming up with weird things like AutoZone's listing for a dryer "for dealer-installed A/C" (thought all Vics had factory A/C?) and a selection of orifice tube listings ranging in price from $3 to $60! Even the model-specific listing for retrofit kits on Napa Online lists one kit for use with a "6E Series" compressor and a different one for a "FS6" compressor! Additionally, I had been under the impression that when converting to R134a, a different (smaller?) orifice tube is required than with R12, but I haven't seen any mention of this in the threads I've viewed.

So, so far all I'm comparatively certain of, going by the parts listed at Napa Online, is:

- O-ring kit: TEM801799, $13 (notes read "w/ R12 or R134a Retrofit System Kit contains Caps and Valve Cores required for complete A/C System Repair")

- Dryer/Accumulator: TEM208340 , $35


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So, with luck, you guys with actual A/C knowledge and experience can help me finish my supplies list with exact part numbers, maybe find some things cheaper, get a total cost estimate, and correct any errors in my anticipated procedure for converting the system using factory-style parts.

[andymac0035]

I went cheap.......

I just bought a kit (less than $60) from Bond auto pats. Name on the box said "E-Z-chill"

Came with the hose (with a guage on it), adapter fittings, instructions on CD, and 3 cans of R-134a with ester oil already mixed into them. Supposedly has stuff for sealing off leaks and swelling seals as well.

I probaly should have done it the way you laid out......but hey it worked.
It also helped that my system was bone-dry of R-12

[andymac0035]

Oh.....and all vics did not have A/C. My 81' had no A/C and crank windows.

[1987cp]

Interesting, the two R134a retrofit kits I saw at Napa Online were both priced at around $35. Perhaps the extra cost is for the advertised sealing qualities, or maybe the kits I saw don't come with the hose and gauge?

Funny about your '81. I had assumed my '81 was the basest of the base models, since it has crank windows, non-tilt steering (first time I had seen that), and the ugly full bench seat, but it appears to have left the factory with A/C installed. What did the p/s firewall area look like on your '81?

[andymac0035]

Interesting, the two R134a retrofit kits I saw at Napa Online were both priced at around $35. Perhaps the extra cost is for the advertised sealing qualities, or maybe the kits I saw don't come with the hose and gauge?

Funny about your '81. I had assumed my '81 was the basest of the base models, since it has crank windows, non-tilt steering (first time I had seen that), and the ugly full bench seat, but it appears to have left the factory with A/C installed. What did the p/s firewall area look like on your '81?

I would think all kits would need a hose and a guage to be of any use. (but I dunno).

As for my 81,
The p/s area was pretty open.....sparkplug changes were a breeze.
It only had one serpenteen belt....there was also a tiny one for the smog pump....but that....as well as the pump...."dissapeared".

That car was sparse on options:
No A/C, just plain heater contols (not even a blank spot on the slider were the A/C would have been)
Crank windows with no wind-wings or side vents or whatever you guys call those things ( I see you have them on your 2-door).
It did have cloth seats and the fronts were the split-bench (manual) with recline.
It had an AM/FM stereo (no tape deck)(well one was added on, but not factory)
I thought it had 3 speakers up front and 2 in the back. (not sure if all 3 things up front were speakers).
It also came with the infamous 255ci engine (I had that "fixed" however).
14" steel wheels sporting p205's and LTD hubcaps. (also "fixed")
Just a plain domelight and the instument cluster were the only interior lights.
It did have carpeting and floormats....that's about it.

All the things I had done to it were for perfomance. If it didn't make it go faster I wasn't interested. (I was 19 at the time)

[torquelover]

The O-rings in the car have been changed. I put the green ones in from Ford a long time ago. One of the lines attached to the compressor is stripped. I can't remember which one, but you should be able to tell which one as it's not on there straight. Don't remove that one if you can. The system worked great for many years (on R-12) until I parked it for a few years.

[gadget73]

If the line is stripped, I'd suggest replacing that line while you can still get one. Hope its not the suction side, those are a real hassle to obtain.

Process sounds about right but in all honesty if you're opening the system up, you might as well run a system flush through to get rid of all the mineral oil and ensure there is no crap in there. Also, run the vacuum pump as long as you can, if you can leave it on there for 30+ minutes you're good, but basically the longer the better. You also want to see 28" or more of vacuum if at all possible. Under that and you boil off the moisture in the system. I'd also suggest a new pressure switch thats set for R134 pressures. The R12 switch runs a little higher, though it can be adjusted if needed.

Do you have or have access to a real set of manifold gauges so you can watch the high and low side pressures? Those are nicer to use than just the charge hose thing with the little can. More useful too since you can really see what its doing.

[1987cp]

Oooh, good info about the line. Guess that's the most obvious leak source, then! Probably disturbed it during the engine swap. I wonder if the hoses I took off the wagon are still any good ...

I do have an A/C manifold intended for residential use, just needs one of the hoses repaired. Don't have an adaptor for the wrong-size Shrader valve on the high pressure side, though possibly my neighbor does (an AutoZone goon basically told me off once when I called asking for such an adaptor). Actually, he and his buddy might even know how to connect the manifold to an R134 can ....

What in particular do I need to look for when shopping for the new pressure switch? Is there a more specific description (or preferably a part number) I'll need to avoid that annoying combination of funny looks and hair loss?

[1987cp]

Random archaelogical oddness

Well, this is interesting. I dug out the old parts from the wagon and found something odd. The O-rings at the one complete disconnect joint I have handy are indeed the green kind, but those at the compressor are black. The people at a certain Ford dealer who charged me roughly $300 back in '99 told me they'd "replaced all the O-rings" (and the dryer is indeed newer and marked for use with R-12 or R-134a, too bad it's now been sitting open for years and years), so it seems odd that they would have used the green Viton rings in some locations and left the plain ones at the compressor. When I challenged them about why my system had still lost pressure after they serviced it, they acted like the next most likely leak location (to be determined by repeatedly charging me another $120 for a charge and letting it go to waste, evidently) was the condensor. I don't remember if I still have the condensor; it'd be interesting to double-check what color O-rings it had on it when it was removed ... I'd be even more annoyed than I was then if I were to learn that they only replaced the O rings at that one joint!

[1990LTD]

My AC blows hot air. The regular vent blows hot air if it's really humid out for the first minute or two you have it on, regardless of hot hot the motor is. Anyway, the AC won't blow cold air no matter how long I leave it on. I have no idea what's wrong with it and don't presume to know anything about AC systems.

There's a garage that I saw a sign outside of saying "Free AC inspection" - Should I go have it looked at there, or do you figure they're just going to claim a ton of stuff is broken and rip me off?

[gadget73]

My AC blows hot air. The regular vent blows hot air if it's really humid out for the first minute or two you have it on, regardless of hot hot the motor is. Anyway, the AC won't blow cold air no matter how long I leave it on. I have no idea what's wrong with it and don't presume to know anything about AC systems.

There's a garage that I saw a sign outside of saying "Free AC inspection" - Should I go have it looked at there, or do you figure they're just going to claim a ton of stuff is broken and rip me off?

Does the compressor run? If it does, then you have in-dash issues. If the compressor does not run, most likely it has no refrigerant. Drop by the place and get a free inspection if the compressor is not activating.

[1990LTD]

I have absolutely no idea haha

[gadget73]

Turn the AC on with the engine running, and go look at the front of the compressor. If its spinning with the belt, its running. If its stationary, it is not running.

[andymac0035]

Hey if you know anyone with the proper EPA certification....look what I found.
http://grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30920

[1987cp]

Hm.... since this thread seems to have gone bust as far as answering my questions and compiling a parts list, I may as well ask random curious questions.

As for my 81,
The p/s area was pretty open.....sparkplug changes were a breeze.
It only had one serpenteen belt....there was also a tiny one for the smog pump....but that....as well as the pump...."dissapeared".

Right, I was kind of wondering what they had on the firewall itself for ducting air from the blower to the heater in leiu of the big evaporator enclosure. Did it look anything like the little square duct I whittled up for the wagon?