My '85 MGM, "Maisa"

[sly]

I've heard that the Eddies are fussy because they're very adjustable.

[gadget73]

Usually thats what I hear about Holley, and that the Carter/Eddy carbs "just work" because they are not so adjustable.

Only real experience I have is with the Weber branded AFB that was on our old boat. Never got those things to start for shit. Ran fine once it kicked off, but they were factory calibration and brand new. Did zero tuning beyond idle and choke adjustments but nothing ever made them just start without cranking the hell out of it. Both engines were that way. Clapped out Q-jets with the choke completely missing and wired open would consistently start easier.

[Tiggie]

My Rustang came with an Edelbrock 1406 on a stock 302. I rebuilt it, first time having any experience with them. I put it back to stock jets and rods for 1406. It ran fine, but again no wideband monitor on that. I would still run it but the dumb things are so wide that it interferes with an A/C bracket on that car.

[DerekTheGreat]

I didn't pick Edelbrock because of the reviews, but I do get what you mean. Discussing carbs on the internet is completely hopeless. The overly positive and negative voices drown out everything else, unless you're looking for specific advice. And even then there'll probably be someone yelling to "just put a 600 double pumper on it", or "ditch that leaky Holley garbage".

I picked the Edelbrock because it has small primaries, fuel won't get stale in the secondaries, it was relatively affordable and kinda did want to check out Edels for a comparison.
A smaller vacuum Holley with 4-corner idle would be great, except there's no such thing (and I don't like 4-corner idles). Or a 2bbl, but then I'd just get a 2150...


And as an extra little FU, I had messaged one of the more prominent Edelbrock "gurus" from the JewToobs. laying out the essential info and issues. He proceeded to misread EVERY SINGLE POINT I made, concluded that I have a vacuum leak, told me to revert all changes I'd made and quite bluntly insulted me. Fuck that guy.

But I will make this Edelbrock work the best I can, after that I'll conclude if it's staying or not.

I wouldn't call discussing garbs on the internet hopeless. This thread, for example. It has helped me see that I am faar too lazy to ever deal with a garburetor again. Although once I got my Holley running acceptably, I never had drivability issues with it aside from the floats wanting to stick if it sat longer than two weeks or whatever it was. Then again, like Tiggie said, I never put an AFR gauge on it. I essentially made the thing cruise & idle as lean as I could get it to go without ill effects. I think if I chased the AFR as you have, I'd have gone bald from frustration with it.

There is indeed a lot of bullshit out there. I deal with it in the audio world. So much popular opinion that is flat out wrong, but majority rules and so I've learned you dare not stick your finger in the middle of it. What would a "victory" be worth in that arena anyway?

I'm sorry about your experience with the self-elected "guru." Sounds like his arrogance got in the way.

"I will make this Ecklebrock work the best I can and after that, I'll conclude if it's staying or not." Now that sounds like the making of a review worth reading and considering.

[Arquemann]

Seems like "making the Edelbrock work the best I can" came way sooner than I expected...

The idle mixture likes to fluctuate on the Edelbrock, ±0.5 AFR just sitting at a traffic light. Dunno if its any less annoying than the dumpster fire Holley randomly picking an idle AFR between 13&16 every time I started it.

I replaced the 0.52mm wire in the idle air bleeds with 0.6mm wire, which behaved mostly according to my expectations. AFRs when pinky toeing the pedal richened slightly more, leanest it gets is still about 16:1, but its noticeably smoother there now.

Then I went from calibration #1 (factory) to calibration #8 according to the model specific tuning chart, which equals 1 step leaner at cruise mode and 2,5/3 steps leaner on power mode.

In the real world that translated to pretty good cruise mixtures, high 13s to low 14s. Acceptable, but could be a touch leaner still. Drives great.

Buuuuut, even leaned out as much on "power mode" the carb still runs like mid 11s to 12.0. That'd be tolerable for like WOT stuff, but it ain't okay going that rich by just pulling from traffic lights with the slightest hint of haste.

And when the secondaries open the AFRs go into single digits, but that's not particularly important currently.


So, I'm currently at #8, and need to move left on chart...


Yeah, the AFRs overall aren't as nice as on the old Holley, the idle is kinda high and mixtures fluctuate, plus I'm out of adjustment room. Fucking great.
I gotta figure out if there's a hidden vacuum leak, the high idle is suspicious.

I was going take the old warped Holley base plate to get straightened / resurfaced, but the local machine shop is on holiday. And so are the guys from the next town over.
Today is a cruise night/event for the 383rd anniversary of a nearby town, should get plenty of more driving to feel things out more.

Eddys are shit lol

[sly]

Usually thats what I hear about Holley, and that the Carter/Eddy carbs "just work" because they are not so adjustable.

Only real experience I have is with the Weber branded AFB that was on our old boat. Never got those things to start for shit. Ran fine once it kicked off, but they were factory calibration and brand new. Did zero tuning beyond idle and choke adjustments but nothing ever made them just start without cranking the hell out of it. Both engines were that way. Clapped out Q-jets with the choke completely missing and wired open would consistently start easier.

I could be remembering it backwards. Wouldn't be the first time. And yeah... q-jets suck because of the way they wear out, but work really well until then.

[Arquemann]

The Edelbrock experience was such a dashing success that I returned it to the parts store as faulty.
Apparently I'm the 4th or 5th to return a 500CFM AVS2 in the last couple weeks, with similar wonky issues. No, I'm not getting a replacement.

So now I get to re-redo everything I had to change to go from the Holley to Eddy. And then I'm back to square one. I did get a new PCV valve which seemed be a tiny leak at idle.
Currently I'm low on motivation and severely out of fucks, so your regularly scheduled bashing-head-against-wall will continue tomorrow or on Saturday.


Or maybe I move to San Mateo de Vega and buy a little Peugeot.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Or maybe I move to San Mateo de Vega and buy a little Peugeot.

If it's got nipples or tires it'll give you problems.

Just make it not stumble & stuff and drive it with the AFR disconnected. Then when money is burning a hole in your wallet, EFI swap it.

[Arquemann]

This hunk of junk is back together in Holley flavour, and seemingly in full-ish operational capacity. TV cable needs adjustment and a newly found old issue to fix.

- I closed the secondary throttle blades by a quarter turn, might've done something or not. They are still tied shut.
- Haven't had full throttle since I moved the throttle cable stud last year, cruise cable was bottoming out. Good thing I didn't break it.
- Moving the throttle ball stud back to the lower hole made the pedal awfully heavy again, because Lokar.
- I tried lubricating the TV cable sheath, didn't feel a difference. If the cable wasn't so stiff I wouldn't really mind the Lokar TV cable.
- Redid the fuel hose to the carb, instead of going up in front of the hot cylinder head, it now comes up by the ac drier and goes over hvac box.
- New PCV valve rattles like mad at idle, but so does the old one, except it does it quietly.

I kinda want a 2150, that way I could use the TV rod. Bigger venturi one made for a 351 would flow more, but how out of whack would it be on a 302?
Or anyone happen to have a factory carb TV cable with associated arms and brackets laying around?

[gadget73]

maybe the real solution is to figure out how to use a factory EFI TV cable with a carb. Those Lokar cables never impressed me. Too much friction, and janky mounting.

or maybe do something else entirely. Its just a cable, there has to be some bulk industrial source thats a cut to length sort of affair and some means to attach an end of your choosing. Nothing about any of it seems like it should be very difficult to make not suck, and yet it does.

[Arquemann]

My throttle and cruise cables are now separate. Throttle is now on the upper hole on the linkage, and the cruise is on the lower hole. The upper hole actually has just slightly too much travel for the throttle cable aswell, but I'll happily trade the last 2-3 degree of throttle opening for a pleasantly light pedal.

Today's cruise night will probably tell if I'll keep looking for new carb/TV solutions or if I'll just keep on keeping on. Wallowing in misery is just the best!

maybe the real solution is to figure out how to use a factory EFI TV cable with a carb. Those Lokar cables never impressed me. Too much friction, and janky mounting.

or maybe do something else entirely. Its just a cable, there has to be some bulk industrial source thats a cut to length sort of affair and some means to attach an end of your choosing. Nothing about any of it seems like it should be very difficult to make not suck, and yet it does.

Well, there's the Sonnax AS4-04K (Holley) and AS5-05K (Edel/AFB) TV corrector brackets.
They just say they work with factory AOD TV cable, whichever one that might be. Would every factory AOD TV cable have the same travel? Sonnax says to have 1.48" of travel. The Sonnax corrector bracket places the carb stud slightly higher than the stock location with the Lokar cable, so the Lokar one should have slightly more travel to it than the factory cable.

Retrofitting a different sheath (and probably the cable) might not be the easiest thing. On the carb end the braided sheath doesn't have any gubbins on it, it just slips into a ferrule that slots into the adjuster. The sheath on the trans end might pull out from the ferrule-nut-thing, not sure. Could be as simple as sourcing a new sheath that fits in the ferrules. Bicycle stuff is usually low friction stuff, but the cables might be too dinky for automotive use.

Another idea I've had would be to get a TH700 TV cable (which are actually available new), retain the Lokar arm & bracket on the trans end and get a top bracket for the ratcheting adjuster. One question would be length. The Lokar setup pulls from the back due to the trans arm arrangement.
A Ford truck style TV cable (also readily available) could also work in a similar fashion, but those need a ball stud and a different bracket on the trans end.
The Sonnax AS6-01 bracket would fit a Ford truck or GM TV cable to a Holley carb.

Or I could go manual valve body. Or C4. Or 4R70W.

Going to a 2150 and the factory TV rod is quite tempting. It'd fix all my TV woes and hopefully the niggly little carb issues aswell. I'm just a bit apprehensive about mass-reman carburettors.