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types of wrenches for tough bolts?

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    types of wrenches for tough bolts?

    Hi!

    Very frustrated here. Trying to swap out the starter motor, which I think and hope is my issue. It's held on by simply 2 bolts with a 1/2" hex head. The lower one came off fine. The top one... another story.

    There's a bit of metal cast into the motor housing itself blocking some movement of a normal, flat wrench; so I've been focusing on using a socket wrench.

    But there's very little room to maneuver. There's seemingly something in every direction to block my way.

    Now the problem with a socket wrench is that there's very little purchase on the nut: sockets are designed with a taper ground into them, probably to help center the socket, and furthermore: the bolt is close to the housing of the starter motor, so the fat width of the wrench itself puts it at an angle.
    The result is that the socket will just spiral off of the nut, every time. The corners are starting to round, as the fruit of my labors. I know that once I can just break that initial seized friction I can get it going, but it hasn't budged!

    I've tried a variety of extensions, to get the socket wrench out past the starter motor: but it has to be *just* the right length or I bump into more welded steel. I went out and bought a smaller breaker bar, with a smaller head than my ratchet, in hopes that that wouldn't bump into the motor housing; but it didn't change much.

    What should have been any easy 1hr job, has been anything but!

    I don't own an air/ impact socket, but I don't see how I'd fit it in there if I did run out to buy one just for this.
    Also no room for vise grips. They'd occurred to me though.

    I'm thinking about driving out to sears, which is a bit further than lowes/ home depot, and seeing if there's some variety of offset wrench that will be a silver bullet...?
    Last edited by BerniniCaCO3; 07-30-2010, 06:18 PM.

    #2
    Is your socket 6 or 12 sided? i 6 is critical in situations like this. you probably just been the right length extension, and a 'wobble' or swivel adapter might help too.
    Pete ::::>>> resident LED addict and CFI defector LED bulb replacements
    'LTD HPP' 85 Vic (my rusty baby) '06 Honda Reflex 250cc 'Baileys' 91 Vic (faded cream puff) ClifFord 'ODB' 88 P72 (SOLD) '77 LTDII (RIP)
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    Comment


      #3
      Sometimes using a 3/8ths to 1/2 adapter helps get that "perfect" spacing.
      I just used some extensions, a 3/8's ratchet......and a long 1/2" extension with a deep socket on the end of it (slipped over the ratchet to make a braker-bar out of it).

      You did pre-soak the starter bolts before you started right?
      *EDIT*
      (PB blaster works good)
      And 6-sided is indeed very crutial here.
      Former panther owner
      1981 CV 351 4bbl
      1991 CV 302 EFI

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        #4
        I've been using a 12-sided: my only 6-sided is an deep one, and the taper ground into it seems to be extra deep too, so it's just slipping off as well.

        The breaker bars I tried had a single degree of freedom (one swivel). Might try an adapter.

        Any chemicals that are good at chewing through the old bolt?

        Comment


          #5
          didn't soak them: what should i soak them with?
          I own, acetone (break cleaner: but it sure smells like just acetone), silicones, and throttle body cleaner. Don't have any wd-40 at the moment.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by BerniniCaCO3 View Post
            didn't soak them: what should i soak them with?
            I own, acetone (break cleaner: but it sure smells like just acetone), silicones, and throttle body cleaner. Don't have any wd-40 at the moment.
            pb blaster
            water( yes plain old water)
            CRC freeze off
            any kind of penetrating oil
            89 townie, mild exhuast up grades, soon to have loud ass stereo....

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              #7
              thanks! Will go to the store tomorrow morning.
              Any tips for the O2 sensor also, btw...? It's not in a terribly convenient location!

              Comment


                #8
                same rule for the O2 sensors... soak with a penetrating oil and use an O2 sensor socket.

                plenty of types to chose from too...


                I personally like one of the "ratchet connector to the side" types because there is no room to get one of the "wire out the slit in the socket" types in position on my 93 vic. I have miles of room on the 88 in comparison. Plus the side mount ones look quite a bit beefier.
                Last edited by sly; 07-30-2010, 09:27 PM.

                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                Originally posted by gadget73
                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                Originally posted by dmccaig
                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                Comment


                  #9
                  How long should I let the oil soak?

                  Tried the O2 sensor again just now, using liquid wrench. No luck. Part of the problem: I bought a sensor socket, but the OEM sensor has a metal sheath around the body, behind the nut, such that I can't actually slide the socket around it! At least, not a 6-star socket; a 12-point will fit.

                  Couldn't get the oil into the bolt over the starter motor, will try a paint brush.
                  Tried a dogleg wrench and it still won't come off, just continues to round.

                  Almost frustrated enough to call AAA to have it towed to a mechanic, and pay them just to get this bolt off. But that would be a damned shame :-(

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Top starter bolt? Just throw a regular 1/2" socket on enough extensions that you can reach it conveniently from in front of the suspension crossmember. I have a pretty good pile of 3/8" socket extensions for just such reasons.
                    2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yup, top starter bolt. Still having trouble with it... extensions or no, the sockets are just twisting off of it. It feels like there's resistance, and feels good: but in fact the bolt isn't moving, it's soft corners are simply rounding off.

                      On the question of the O2 sensor: I can't fit the standard O2 socket over the original one. My 22mm wrench doesn't have quite enough room to really torque it. Over the O2 sensor there is a nut and a longer threaded rod, looks like 3/8-16, coming out of the engine block, through what might be an exhaust port...?
                      I don't know engines, yet; though at some future date I do look forward to rebuilding one for a project and learning.

                      Anyway: can I remove that nut AND the threaded rod? It t'would give me much better access to remove the O2 sensor.
                      But I don't want to, a) find out the rod just doesn't come out or b) find out I just really screwed up some alignment inside the engine, that it wasn't just holding on an exhaust port


                      thanks!
                      -Bernard

                      Comment


                        #12
                        if your tools have a lifetime waranty on them you can always "make" them fit by either grinding the taper off the socket or heating and bending an extension to the right angle. i have done this to some of my tools and taken them back in with no questions asked. also try using a welding brush to clean up the nastyness on that bolt before you try to spay it with brake clean, liquid wrench, etc.
                        What happened here?

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                          #13
                          1/4 inch drive 1/2 with a wobble extension.
                          1989 Grand Marquis LS
                          flat black, 650 double pumper, random cam, hei, stealth intake, Police front springs, Wagon rear, Police rear bar, wagon front ,exploder wheels, 205/60-15 fronts 275/60-15 rears, 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" offroad x pipe, Eclipse front bucket seats, Custom floor shifter, 4.10 gears, aluminum driveshaft and daily driven. 16.77@83mph

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I swapped mine out just using a 3/8 ratchet and either a 3 or 6" extension. I can't recall, all I know it was no where near as miserable as people made it out to be. Tight, yes, but not impossible.

                            Tip 1: 6 point socket as already mentioned. More grip surface.
                            Tip 2: GRIND THAT FRIGGEN LIP OFF THE END OF THE SOCKET. Especially important when working with bolts that also have the ends tapered.
                            Tip 3: Do NOT remove the bottom bolt first. Crack it loose if you must, but snug it back up. Start with the top bolt. There is flex in the bolted joint, if you remove one entirely the remaining bolt takes all the stress making it harder to remove. Same principle as starting ALL your bolts before you begin tightening one.

                            Alex.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              OK: good ideas! Let me get that wobble extension, and try and grind the lip off (it was giving me trouble),

                              Oh, and good advice about the bottom bolt. I did in fact remove it first and entirely-- it was easier

                              alright, will report back in a couple hours-- hopefully I'll have it swapped, and a new starter in place!!

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