5.0 to 4.6 swap

[Mercracer]

Why would you put a carb on a 4.6? They don't make that much more power than the EFI. I personally wouldn't want an exposed flimsy belt driving the distributor. Unless they've changed the design...

What is a distributor???
Go tell Pro Stock that carbs don't make horsepower. A carb with a Nitrous Plate under it is killer simple.

[86VickyLX]

What is a distributor???
Go tell Pro Stock that carbs don't make horsepower. A carb with a Nitrous Plate under it is killer simple.

How are you supplying spark to the cylinders with a carb then?
I didn't say they didn't make horse power, I just said they don't make much more than EFI...

[1980c10]

Probably a ignition box and coil pack setup like carb'd lsx's use. Anyway lol ever since I read the article about trick flows twisted wedge heads for a 2v 4.6, I have wanted to build a N/A 4.6 screamer based around those heads.

[P72Ford]

There are plenty of spark options out there. MSD makes a spark controller specifically for the carbureted modular applications.

MSD 6011.

[86VickyLX]

Probably a ignition box and coil pack setup like carb'd lsx's use. Anyway lol ever since I read the article about trick flows twisted wedge heads for a 2v 4.6, I have wanted to build a N/A 4.6 screamer based around those heads.

That's pretty cool!

[Mercracer]

How are you supplying spark to the cylinders with a carb then?
I didn't say they didn't make horse power, I just said they don't make much more than EFI...

Carbs don't supply spark to the cylinders. They mix fuel and air.
For the power levels we are proposing with the builds on this board, it costs ALOT more $$$$$ to make as much horsepower with EFI than with a carb.

[86VickyLX]

Carbs don't supply spark to the cylinders. They mix fuel and air.
For the power levels we are proposing with the builds on this board, it costs ALOT more $$$$$ to make as much horsepower with EFI than with a carb.

Normally, when using Carburetors, your ignition system would consist of a distributor.

Since there are other means of spark with Carburetors now besides distributors, I'm not going to continue this anymore.

[1987cp]

Carbs don't supply spark to the cylinders. They mix fuel and air.
For the power levels we are proposing with the builds on this board, it costs ALOT more $$$$$ to make as much horsepower with EFI than with a carb.

Just trying to think ... these fancy new super-responsive carburetors I've read about seem to start around $700 or $800 .... intakes are often $250-plus new .... I guess fancy carb spacers like those from Wilson Manifolds can be expensive ... so say $1000-$1500, I guess, for a really modern carbed street intake setup? Though perhaps you're thinking a good deal cheaper for something a GMNer would actually attempt?

For SEFI, aftermarket SEFI manifolds seem to start around $600 or so .... say $200-$300 (though maybe more) for a TB, $200-$300ish for injectors (again, maybe more) .... factory ECMs can be free but then they need tuning ... the one tool I know a tiny bit about is a TwEECer, which costs what, about $280ish? That still seems to come to something like $1000-$1500, but in this case, maybe I'm forgetting something.

I'm assuming for the time being that other costs will be comparable ....


Thoughts on more exact guesstimates?

[Mercracer]

Just trying to think ... these fancy new super-responsive carburetors I've read about seem to start around $700 or $800 .... intakes are often $250-plus new .... I guess fancy carb spacers like those from Wilson Manifolds can be expensive ... so say $1000-$1500, I guess, for a really modern carbed street intake setup? Though perhaps you're thinking a good deal cheaper for something a GMNer would actually attempt?

$350ish for a decent Holley, $170 for an intake. Done.

The list price is $550 for a Tweecer that can make full adjustments. Don't forget a MAF sensor in your costs. Most people are not going to pay for dyno time and tune their SD system.

Of course I am talking a realistic GMN build. Remember, you are starting out with a NoPo 302 and the factory ECM. The math for what it takes to run 12s EFI vs Carb is pretty straight forward.

[rick99601]

carbs FTW!

[1987cp]

So I guess this hypothetical injected motor will be avoiding any aftermarket induction parts?

Remember, you are starting out with a NoPo 302 and the factory ECM.

Guess I assumed the first step was always to remove everything that makes it a NoPo ....

The math for what it takes to run 12s EFI vs Carb is pretty straight forward.

Really not sure what you mean by that.

[Mercracer]

So I guess this hypothetical injected motor will be avoiding any aftermarket induction parts?

Not really sure what you meant by that

Guess I assumed the first step was always to remove everything that makes it a NoPo ....
.

The first premise is that Carb motors do not make significantly more HP than EFI. The second is that the costs are similar for a decent EFI build and a Carb build.
I countered both by stating that a nice carb build is a fraction of any kind of decent EFI build. The "math" I refer to is the cost to bolt a carb on a motor and run 12s. The only costs we are addressing are the specific costs between running a carb and EFI. Some costs are the same such as heads, exhaust, gears, etc.... I am only addressing induction and ignition.

[1987cp]

Logical enough. Corollary of high-cost illustration being that comparable-cost or even less-cost with a carb will often still make more power. Gotcha. I had obviously been thinking in terms of assembling a good longblock and giving it the induction it needs, in which case experienced folks seem to claim you'll be making comparable power, AND the carb setup will still cost quite a bit.


The EFI/aftermarket comment was observing the fact that GMNers almost never invest in aftermarket intakes or TBs for their injected stuff - so the cost would then be limited to the worst deal you can get on an Exploder intake and TB (for example).

[Mercracer]

Logical enough. Corollary of high-cost illustration being that comparable-cost or even less-cost with a carb will often still make more power. Gotcha. I had obviously been thinking in terms of assembling a good longblock and giving it the induction it needs, in which case experienced folks seem to claim you'll be making comparable power, AND the carb setup will still cost quite a bit.


The EFI/aftermarket comment was observing the fact that GMNers almost never invest in aftermarket intakes or TBs for their injected stuff - so the cost would then be limited to the worst deal you can get on an Exploder intake and TB (for example).

To address both of the scenerios you have just presented, I present to you a used Victor Jr intake for less than $200 and a Brand new Holley carb for $350 or a used one for $200. I do not see how this will "cost quite a bit"... Plenty of fuel and air to feed a "good long block" giving it "the induction it needs". It will kill an Explorer intake combo.

[1987cp]

You know, forget the whole thing. This discussion is going nowhere in a hurry. Probably my fault for not first gaining the ability and background to explain my thoughts adequately (IOW, parroting concepts I've read about elsewhere in a slightly different context). Possibly I'll be better qualified to continue it at some point in the future.