CFI. Help?

[86VickyLX]

Well...whats easier. SEFI or Carb swaps?

Depends. proper way to go to carb would be removing the fuel pump inside the tank, a different timing cover, cam eccentric. Need a carb intake, a carb, and a different spark set up.

Or you could run a fuel pressure regulator and make up new lines for a bypass for the electric fuel pump.

SEFI would need different fuel lines, which could be added via compression fittings. You'd need a computer, a wiring harness from 1986-1991. an EVTM for your car and the donor car would help a lot. upper and lower intake, sensors, injectors, throttle body, tv and throttle cables. You can use your distributor from your car.

[P72Ford]

A carburetor swap is not necessarily a step in the wrong direction.

But if you've never fiddled with any carburetors, or aren't willing to do so, then don't do a carb swap.

There is a right and wrong way to do it. For a daily driver, a mechanical pump will be fine. Change the timing cover (if your's doesn't have the boss), add an eccentric (if i doesn't have one), and change the timing set (just because). Do the water pump as well.

If you can use the old fuel feed line in a reasonable manner, do so. Otherwise, run a new line. Pull the old pump out of the tank, and throw it away. Eiher modify the pick-up you have, make a new one, or use a carbed pick-up from a 351 police cruiser. That may require you to buy a new tank, but that is probably a good ida, anyway.

To run an in line electric pump, you have to sump the tank, or use a cell. This helps the pump stay primed. Unless the inline pump is meant to pull up hill. That part is very important. If its not, you hurt the life cycle of the pump. An electric pump won't require you to do the timing cover, eccentric, etc.

An electric pump will require a regulator. If its high pressure, you need to run a return line, and use a good regulator. A good regulator is going to cost over $100. A $25 regulator is meant for a 12-14 psi Holley blue/ black pump, not a high pressure pump. If you use an EFI pump and a dead head regulator, you are asking for it. A Holley red doesn't require a regulator, but it does require a sump. A Blue pump will require a sump, and dead head regulator. Both of those pumps are noisy. There are certainly other pump options, but most electrics are not meant to pull fuel uphill.

This is why I recommend the mechanical pump. No tank mods, no regulator, and one line. You just have to change the timing cover, eccentric, etc. If you have to change the chain anyway... why not?

Buy a DS2 dist for a 302, and get either a DS2 box, or an MSD box.

Depending if you want to go with a 2 bbl or 4 bbl, you have intake and carb options. I used to recommend Edelbrock carbs until I started messing with Holleys. Edebrocks are still a great carb, for a beginner especially. They are blissfully simple and easy to tune. They are also more affordable.

Also... I like to limit the rubber line used in a fuel system. Aluminum line is cheap and easy to work with. It also looks far more professional.

If you do the carb swap, you can also throw out alot of wiring under the hood.

[gadget73]

It sounds like you need to start by fixing the base electrical problems. Pull and clean the battery cables. Clean all the ground connections. make sure the alternator is charging properly. It sounds like you are experiencing low voltage problems with the radio.

For the running problems, can you be specific about what exactly its doing? When was the last tuneup? How old is the fuel filter? Are the vacuum lines in good condition? Have you checked it for codes? Does it still run stupid after verifiying that all of the battery cables are right and the alternator is charging ?

[Merc302]

It sounds like you need to start by fixing the base electrical problems. Pull and clean the battery cables. Clean all the ground connections. make sure the alternator is charging properly. It sounds like you are experiencing low voltage problems with the radio.

For the running problems, can you be specific about what exactly its doing? When was the last tuneup? How old is the fuel filter? Are the vacuum lines in good condition? Have you checked it for codes? Does it still run stupid after verifiying that all of the battery cables are right and the alternator is charging ?

I spent this weekend doing my electrical problems. I havent checked for codes. Im trying to get more information on this eeciv system.
I replaced the battery. I had already thrown new plugs in it. Im waiting to get new wires after i either get a new dist or cap as the points are thrashed. Im thinking of getting a new coil just cause. Alternator works fine. All my grounds are good and everything works well. Except the passenger window and the rears. theyre off track i think. As far as the timing chain. I need a few more tools. ive got smaller stuff. And as reccommended i am going to do the water pump at the same time.
About a timing cover to convert to carb. what do i need to be looking for? Would the 351 cover of the same year work?

[Merc302]

As far as running problems. The throttle kick solenoid is inactive and the TPS either holds it cracked wayyyy the fuck open. or doesnt hold it at all.

[Merc302]

I converted an HO to carb last July. If you want to know I can tell you how you can make the existing fuel system work with a carb. My car was orginally CFI also, but the HO i got came available so i did a complete engine swap. I can probably tell you some things you may need without breaking the bank.

Wellll id just really like to know what i need to make the CFI to carb happen. Mainly what im stuck on is fuel delivery. Is there any way to keep my existing pump in the tank?

[gadget73]

TPS doesn't hold the throttle open. There is a high idle choke system on the side of the CFI unit thats basically like a carb. It consists of that round hockey puck thing and a high idle cam. If that stuff is gummed up, you'll either have no high idle, or no low idle, or some random switching as the linkage frees itself up. Spray the linkages on the passenger side of the cfi unit with some carb cleaner and make sure they all move freely. High idle is set with the screw on the passenger side, low idle is set by adjusting the screw that moves the idle kicker solenoid forward. I seem to remember there is a flat head lock screw close to the body of the cfi unit, and a small hex head screw that slides the throttle kicker forward and backward to adjust the idle. Do this with the vac line to the throttle kicker unhooked.

for the throttle kick solenoid, it has a vacuum line from the throttle kicker to a solenoid on the driver's side valve cover. I think its the rear-most one. Make sure that line isn't cracked. Somewhere on here is a post about how to wire things so you can manually actuate that throttle kicker. Might want to look that up to test the thing to see if it works under manual control. the only time that normally does anything is when you turn the AC on.

[Merc302]

That choke system. Is that the thing that says MOTORCRAFT and has some red shit? thing is
alot of times ill start the car and it holds at almost 2000(i hooked up my dmm w/ tach function)
but then i stab the throttle and it idles normal..or dies. then i rigged that solenoid to hold it open a little so it wont die at idle.

[Merc302]

A carburetor swap is not necessarily a step in the wrong direction.

But if you've never fiddled with any carburetors, or aren't willing to do so, then don't do a carb swap.

There is a right and wrong way to do it. For a daily driver, a mechanical pump will be fine. Change the timing cover (if your's doesn't have the boss), add an eccentric (if i doesn't have one), and change the timing set (just because). Do the water pump as well.

If you can use the old fuel feed line in a reasonable manner, do so. Otherwise, run a new line. Pull the old pump out of the tank, and throw it away. Eiher modify the pick-up you have, make a new one, or use a carbed pick-up from a 351 police cruiser. That may require you to buy a new tank, but that is probably a good ida, anyway.

To run an in line electric pump, you have to sump the tank, or use a cell. This helps the pump stay primed. Unless the inline pump is meant to pull up hill. That part is very important. If its not, you hurt the life cycle of the pump. An electric pump won't require you to do the timing cover, eccentric, etc.

An electric pump will require a regulator. If its high pressure, you need to run a return line, and use a good regulator. A good regulator is going to cost over $100. A $25 regulator is meant for a 12-14 psi Holley blue/ black pump, not a high pressure pump. If you use an EFI pump and a dead head regulator, you are asking for it. A Holley red doesn't require a regulator, but it does require a sump. A Blue pump will require a sump, and dead head regulator. Both of those pumps are noisy. There are certainly other pump options, but most electrics are not meant to pull fuel uphill.

This is why I recommend the mechanical pump. No tank mods, no regulator, and one line. You just have to change the timing cover, eccentric, etc. If you have to change the chain anyway... why not?

Buy a DS2 dist for a 302, and get either a DS2 box, or an MSD box.

Depending if you want to go with a 2 bbl or 4 bbl, you have intake and carb options. I used to recommend Edelbrock carbs until I started messing with Holleys. Edebrocks are still a great carb, for a beginner especially. They are blissfully simple and easy to tune. They are also more affordable.

Also... I like to limit the rubber line used in a fuel system. Aluminum line is cheap and easy to work with. It also looks far more professional.

If you do the carb swap, you can also throw out alot of wiring under the hood.

How difficult/expensive would it really be to go mechanical with the fuel?

[gadget73]

eunno about red shit, but its a round black thing with a wire (or two) on the passenger side of the CFI unit. Probably does say Motorcraft. The high idle on start with a blip of the throttle to kick it down is normal. Thats just what CFI (and carbs) do. If its 2000 rpm on high idle, you need to back the screw down some. It should be like 1000 rpm or something at high idle, and I think 700ish on low idle. Its probably specified on the emissions label under the hood.

Just an FYI, carbs have a virtually identical choke and high idle system. The only difference between CFI and a carb in that respect is the CFI unit has no choke flap on the top.

[86VickyLX]

You'll have to pull the timing cover to put the eccentric on the cam. While you're in there replace the timing chain and gears, because if they're original, they have nylon teeth that like to break and screw up engines. Replace it with a double roller timing gear set.

If your timing cover doesn't have the hole for the mechanical fuel pump, you'll need a different timing cover (you'd need one from a carbed car, or get one new for about 100 bucks or so).

You will need to drop the tank and remove the electric fuel pump. So you'll need gas tank straps, and at the worst a gas tank.

You'll need a carb, and probably a carb tuning kit. There's probably other stuff I'm missing.

Also, would it be possible for you to put your Car in your signature? Because it's easier to help you with diagnosing when we know what you have. Thanks mang

[P72Ford]

I've re-used gas tank straps many times before, but it may be a good idea to have them on hand, like John mentioned.

If you pull the sender out of the tank, get a lock ring and o ring. Sometimes the old ones expand once you remove them.

I found timing covers, brand new, for as little as $50. www.50resto.com. You need one with the mechanical pump boss. When you get one, post a picture, and I'll tell you whether you have an early one, or a late one (they use different seals).

Also, this is important. SBFs came with either a 1 or a 2 piece eeccentric for the fuel pump. In my opinion, the 1 piece is a better design, as it is beefier. But, the 2 pc is also a good design (floating ring for less friction)... just seems chintzy. Either will work fine. But, you must make sure that you use a timing set that matches the eccentric. The timing set of a 2 pc eccentric is different than the set for a 1 pc eccentric. One has a raised surface, and the other doesn't. They are not interchangeable.

Also, a 1 pc eccentric uses a longer cam dowel than the 2 pc eccentric.

In my opinion, get a 2 pc eccentric (Comp Cams CCA 235), a 2 pc eccentric specific chain, and use the dowel you have. It is more than likely the short one.

I am using a 1 pc, just because I am using a high volume pump, and racing the car.

The front cover is not a big deal to change. Get a timing cover gasket set, and be anal about sealing up the cover once the chain, etc is changed. Doing the water pump at the same time is just a smart thing to do.

Dropping the tank is not a big deal either. Use a brass punch to turn the lock ring off, pull the sender, and modify it. Or, replace the sender with one form a carbed car. The senders may have different sized holes, so you may be better off buying a new tank for a carbed car as well. They are cheap. Buy it from Advance Auto, use the online discounts (google it), and pick it up in your local store. You You can probably get it for $120. Having a little 5/16" brake line may be a good idea if you want to modify the pick up you have.

That is the right way to go to a carbed car. Use a duraspark 2 distributor (I paid $60 for mine for a 351, with core), and box (I've never had an issue with the cheap $20 boxes), and it will run fine. Remove the excess wiring, and enjoy the simplicity.

People have used the in tank pump, but I personally would never do it. If I did, I'd use a really good bypass regulator, which requires you use the return line, as well. For the cost of a good regulator, you can replace the tank and pick-up.

You have to do the timing chain anyways, so you might as well swap the cover, and go with a mechanical pump. I'd use the pump for an '88 Crown Vic police car, 351. The pump is probably $30.

[Merc302]

sorry about my lack of pictures guys ive got no camera.
If i can get two jacks and some stands, you think i could drop the tank in my drive way?

[86VickyLX]

sorry about my lack of pictures guys ive got no camera.
If i can get two jacks and some stands, you think i could drop the tank in my drive way?

Yes, you can pull the tank in your driveway, make sure you have the car high enough to work with it, and have a second person help you hold it, cause even empty it's awkward to hold.
Spray the bolts with PB blaster.

[1987cp]

Mechanical fuel pump conversion notes:

My '87 motor came with a fuel pump eccentric already installed. No idea why, but since it was there I went ahead and reused it when ditching the SEFI and installing a mechanical fuel pump.

Said '87 motor also came with a timing cover I was able to reuse. It was equipped with the necessary fuel-pump mounting bosses, but the hole for the pump lever was not cut. I opened that up with a drill and some files and reinstalled it, and it's been serving my needs ever since.


So just saying, wait till you've got your junk apart before you go to the trouble of obtaining a new eccentric and timing cover.


I went ahead and obtained a replacement '79 wagon tank for the above swap. I had a lousy time finding a fuel pickup (probably should have been asking for a sending unit instead), and ended up making my own out of the old fuel-level sending unit. Not sure I recommend that route, but I did end up with a 3/8" pickup in that car (stock is 5/16", which means my P72 will eventually need to be upgraded somehow).

As for actually swapping the tank, just make sure your work surface isn't asphalt and/or you're not laying directly on it! One of my work jackets permanently turned a funny color from the fuel-dissolved tar when I had to swap a tank in an asphalt apartment parking lot (also got a letter from management threatening to tow the car if they saw it left in the air ever again).