H.O. Upper stuff swap on LoPo - Does this produce noticable gains?

[pantera77]

It's been years since I've had a car I could mess with. My '98 cvpi has been a good car to me but it's boring as all shit. The 4.6 is a torque-less turd of a boat anchor and since I'm in California I really can't do much of anything to it. OBD-I cars are so much easier to mod and get away with here as the CARB approval numbers back then weren't vehicle-specific, and 5.0 parts are so much cheaper than the mod-motor crap. Add that to the fact that '80s cars just turn me on and yeah, it's just time to move on. Thought about getting a fox mustang again but I won't be able to do everything I want to it and I also have 6 year old twins, so it's nice having 4 doors and more room. Wife won't let me have 2 cars until we get a house, which is kinda sensible, but also no fun. Oh well, my day will come. Meanwhile, i'll entertain myself by reading up on all this tech stuff and anecdotes from you great folks.

Thanks a lot guys, i'll be hanging around here pretty regular I reckon, but will try not to be annoying.

Your going to fit in very well here. All you need now is at least one tube radio and you'll be a true GMNer.

[turbo2256b]

I have tried several set ups on Creamy as well as my old blue 2 door. tried the HO, HO ported, LoPo with EGR spacer tappered to LoPo upper, Ported LoPo upper with 65mm EGR spacer. Used LoPo cams and HO stock injectors and 19#ers. Mixed it all up using 60 and 65mm TB on each.
Best combo was the Ported LoPo upper, HO cam, 19# injectors,ported lower intake with either the 65 or 60 mm TB. Think it hit 270FT LBS AT 2400rpm almost 300 ft lbs around 3500 rpm at 4800 was back down to 270 ft lbs. Oh used ported E7 heads same as gadget's ( I did Gadgets heads same time as mine). This was also the set up that got me 32.9 MPG high way and around 22 in town with 3.55 rear gears.

[knucklehead0202]

I have tried several set ups on Creamy as well as my old blue 2 door. tried the HO, HO ported, LoPo with EGR spacer tappered to LoPo upper, Ported LoPo upper with 65mm EGR spacer. Used LoPo cams and HO stock injectors and 19#ers. Mixed it all up using 60 and 65mm TB on each.
Best combo was the Ported LoPo upper, HO cam, 19# injectors,ported lower intake with either the 65 or 60 mm TB. Think it hit 270FT LBS AT 2400rpm almost 300 ft lbs around 3500 rpm at 4800 was back down to 270 ft lbs. Oh used ported E7 heads same as gadget's ( I did Gadgets heads same time as mine). This was also the set up that got me 32.9 MPG high way and around 22 in town with 3.55 rear gears.

That's pretty damn good turbo! I plan to dicker around with bolt-on stuff for a while but eventually just drop a motor in it. My brother is having a dart block 331 built for his '89 mustang coupe so I may get the motor that's in it now. Nothing special really, but one hell of a lot better than a lopo. It's an HO with gt40 iron heads, e303 cam, and edelbrock performer intake. Once I get in that far i'll definitely be going mass air with an HO computer and such but for now, I need to GET the car. Once I acquire my victim it won't be long before I begin molesting it. That could sound very wrong out of context, lol.

[JeffBoudah]

I use www.searchtempest.com to search a lot of Craigs Lists at once from using your zip code and a radius.

[DerekTheGreat]

I have tried several set ups on Creamy as well as my old blue 2 door. tried the HO, HO ported, LoPo with EGR spacer tappered to LoPo upper, Ported LoPo upper with 65mm EGR spacer. Used LoPo cams and HO stock injectors and 19#ers. Mixed it all up using 60 and 65mm TB on each.
Best combo was the Ported LoPo upper, HO cam, 19# injectors,ported lower intake with either the 65 or 60 mm TB. Think it hit 270FT LBS AT 2400rpm almost 300 ft lbs around 3500 rpm at 4800 was back down to 270 ft lbs. Oh used ported E7 heads same as gadget's ( I did Gadgets heads same time as mine). This was also the set up that got me 32.9 MPG high way and around 22 in town with 3.55 rear gears.

Whoa,that's damn nice. Want to do that to mycar? I see you are also from MI and so this would actually be feasable..

[HiFiMerc]

Lotsa Michiganiacs around here these days. Probably means we should have a meet sometime this summer.

[turbo2256b]

I am not living in Mich anymore but get up there to visit now and then with friends in the suburbs around westland.

[Bobcat]

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4971968496.html

[Hearsesrock427]

The 4.6 is a torque-less turd of a boat anchor and since I'm in California I really can't do much of anything to it. OBD-I cars are so much easier to mod and get away with here as the CARB approval numbers back then weren't vehicle-specific, and 5.0 parts are so much cheaper than the mod-motor crap.

I know what you mean.... I spent like, 5 hours one night looking into building a 4.6 2V torque monster for shits and giggles. Found some nice stuff.... including some torque cams, long tube headers, and some longer runner intake plenums. But they're costly. Good set of long tubes? $600 minimum. Good torque cam? $600 minimum, and that's without the mandatory tune that you'll need! Better intake plenum? Could grab a longer runner plenum off a 4.6 equipped truck for cheap. Probably the only cheap part of building a 4.6 2V for low RPM thrust. Better heads? Couldn't find any heads tailored for torque increases for the 4.6- doesn't mean they don't exist. Would likely be in the low 4 figures....

Regardless, the modular aftermarket is not well developed. Better than it was 5 years ago when I was into modular motors, but nowhere near the SBF 5.0 and 5.8 aftermarkets. For a REAL modular torque monster, a 5.4 2V, or better, 5.4 4V (found in late model Navigators!) is the place to start. Unlike the 4.6, the 5.4s were designed with torque from the factory (some even came with long runner intake plenums from the factory, a la Navigators!), and you can still get stuff like torque cams, long tubes, etc. Pay a bit more now, and have a LOT more performance later.

[knucklehead0202]

I know what you mean.... I spent like, 5 hours one night looking into building a 4.6 2V torque monster for shits and giggles. Found some nice stuff.... including some torque cams, long tube headers, and some longer runner intake plenums. But they're costly. Good set of long tubes? $600 minimum. Good torque cam? $600 minimum, and that's without the mandatory tune that you'll need! Better intake plenum? Could grab a longer runner plenum off a 4.6 equipped truck for cheap. Probably the only cheap part of building a 4.6 2V for low RPM thrust. Better heads? Couldn't find any heads tailored for torque increases for the 4.6- doesn't mean they don't exist. Would likely be in the low 4 figures....

Regardless, the modular aftermarket is not well developed. Better than it was 5 years ago when I was into modular motors, but nowhere near the SBF 5.0 and 5.8 aftermarkets. For a REAL modular torque monster, a 5.4 2V, or better, 5.4 4V (found in late model Navigators!) is the place to start. Unlike the 4.6, the 5.4s were designed with torque from the factory (some even came with long runner intake plenums from the factory, a la Navigators!), and you can still get stuff like torque cams, long tubes, etc. Pay a bit more now, and have a LOT more performance later.

True story buddy, although even the "bigger" mod motors still aren't all that torquey. Keep in mind that you need 2, or 4 cams if you plan to change them, and the goddamn things are expensive. I looked around at engine swaps and I could wedge a 5.4 2v in the car, some have done it but the 4v navi motors are HUGE! Compared to a 4.6 2v I think they're like 8 inches taller, 6 inches wider and weight almost 200 pounds more. If you could even smash it in there the weight disadvantage would likely "outweigh" the added power, and your car would handle like wet dog shit. Bang-for-the-buck is far in favor of the Windsor-style motors, although I will say I have a healthy respect for the reliability and durability of the lowly 2v mod motors. I really beat on my poor car and it just keeps on running so I really can't complain. Going to check out an '87 box vic in a few hours. Will report on results.

[DerekTheGreat]

Lotsa Michiganiacs around here these days. Probably means we should have a meet sometime this summer.

I am not living in Mich anymore but get up there to visit now and then with friends in the suburbs around westland.

What HiFiMerc said! We can't let all of those dudes on the east coast have all the fun now can we? Speaking of Michiganders, if any of you guys are located in the south east theres great panther pickin' at Parts Galore on Warren in Detroit. No HO stuff though but tons of whales and 90-91 boxes. I managed to score a nice set of steelies which are now awaiting winter tires. Need the old school flat pan style Lincoln hub caps...

[knucklehead0202]

Ok so the '87 I looked at last week was a shitbox and I had almost given up on my search by mid-week. Lo and behold, a buddy of mine I haven't heard from in a while calls me up and asks "hey, you still wanna buy that car?"

"What car?" I asked stupidly. Well, 4 months ago or so, I had gone over to his house to fix a few things and noticed he had a box vic in the carport. Not really looking for one at the time but always curious I had asked if he wanted to sell it in semi-gest. Well, now he needed something else fixed and is also preparing to move so he's jettisoning crap left and right. I couldn't even remember what color the bastard was but I told him sure I'd fix his plumbing problems and then take a look at the car. It's a '90, white, pretty clean and runs like a frickin' top. The odometer quit at 109k and he figures it for maybe another 10k over that. Anyhow, asked him what he wanted for it. "A grand" he says. "Sold!" I say. Drove it around a bit and it's smooth and quiet. TV seems in good shape and the tranny responds well to stimulus, but i'll put in one of my brass bushings anyway. Odometer gears were ordered last week so I should have them any day now. I pick up of the car tomorrow and can't wait to get messing with it.

Here's an interesting detail: It's a '90 California car and IS mass-air injected. Since the intake tub and airbox is much like the later vics like my '98, could I conceivably use the '04 Interceptor zip tube and airbox with the built-in MAF? They sell a pigtail to adapt the older MAF connector to the newer-type but I don't know how the computer will like it. I reckon they all use 19# injectors but I wonder if there's anything else screwy about it. I quickly plan to do HO or better upperstuff as well as exhaust in short order. Gotta run cats here for sure but catted mustang h/x-pipes aren't too hard to come by. Anyhow, if I get her home early enough tomorrow i'll snap a couple pics and post 'em up. So excited!

[pantera77]

Nah, the computer expects the stock MAF, leave it alone. I'm assuming those cars have the stupidly small MAF like the early 4.6's had.

[TurboDouche]

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4971968496.html

Great color and those rear wheels look excellent on these cars. Here's one local to me:

http://fargo.craigslist.org/cto/4989875649.html

[knucklehead0202]

Nah, the computer expects the stock MAF, leave it alone. I'm assuming those cars have the stupidly small MAF like the early 4.6's had.

Yes, the MAF is frickin' tiny! Even the stock crap on my '98 looks huge in comparison to the dinky little intake tube, maf, and airbox on this thing. Worst case i'll have to do the HO swap and computer stuff sooner. Any A9 computer should work right? I don't give a shit about cruise control so that's not a concern. Just want to be able to add stuff on without the computer going haywire.