Vibration/shakes/etc... looking for a hand, and a teacher...

[King_V]

Ok, so, some time back, I had some vibration and noises, and, ultimately, it came down to the fact that U-Joints maybe don't often last for 27 years. Front one, according to the shop, was still ok, back was wasted, and the mechanic said he was surprised how little it was felt in driving the car. Still, the new U-Joints made quite a dramatic improvement.

Still has some issues, though.

So, about 2 weeks ago, I start hearing something like a scraping while driving. Proportional to speed, and it was as if, say, I don't know, something briefly scrapes with each rotation of a wheel.

In addition, at higher speeds, there's shake/vibration. Not horrible, but I liked this car when it was butter smooth. I do know I have a shake on vibration, but that one, at least, I *do* know is due to an out-of-round rear-driver brake drum.

I am also told that I have something of a slight toe out condition - but before I go getting an alignment job, I want to make sure my front end is up to par. I'd like to do this myself rather than have a shop tell me "you need everything" whether I need it or not.

Problem: Front ends are more or less a mysterious black box to me. I don't know how to examine various components, see if they're worn or still good, etc.

Is there anyone in the area that can give me a hand with this, and show me what I should be looking for? I'd like to learn what I'm doing - and someone who appreciates Panthers is, of course, preferred.


Another question: Anyone know of a good alignment shop in my area? I've learned that Sears, despite charging full price regardless, will only adjust the things that are out of spec. If I ask for specifics for, say, camber and caster, but only the toe is out of spec, they won't touch the other two, even if they're barely within. Annoying.

[TecNickal]

The below is just kind of general instruction - nothing super specific to your issue but would be good future reference for owning this box.

Well - first thing first - you need to do a visual inspection of the front and rear end. look for something that just looks out of place like a super shiney spot with dirt all around the rest. Look for bolts or joints that look loose.

Also would be wise to jack the front end up, put stands under the frame and let the car rest on the stands. Then start doing front end checks - pushing and pulling on the wheel. With your 87 - with the car on all 4 wheels on the ground, put a jack under the shock absorber mount and jack it up so you have a couple of inches off the ground with wheel hanging. get a large prybar put it under the wheel and pry up against the floor/ground. Feel/hear a clunk? Ball joint. Put your hand on ball joints and feel for the clunk. Not there? Try putting hands at cross diagonal positions on the wheel and push and pull, feel for play...could be wheel bearing. Could be a tie rod end.

Also check steering linkages - helps to have someone turn wheel while you feel for play in all the joints of the steering recirculating ball system. Including the internmediate shaft from steering column all the way down.

In the rear, look for grease or axle fluid inside the rear drum. Listen for whine/hum for a bearing in the rear.

You could have bent wheels possibly. You could have axle shaft issues. You could have driveshaft issues.

Regarding your specific issue - look for wear/rub marks where two parts may rub together, like a brake caliper on a wheel - or something. Just look closely and carefully. You may surprise yourself and see the problem right away.

[85crownHPP]

If stuff is worn out enough to be dangerous, it will be obvious when you check it like mentioned above.
Also push in on the top of the tire with the jack under the control arm, this will make upper ball joint wear more obvious as far as feeling the clunk/movement. Definitely get someone to recreate this for you while you look with a light. You will see obvious 'slop' if things are really worn out, and just a little if they are a little worn out. An alignment shop may still insist that things a 'little' worn out get replaced anyway, which is usual, and will get you the best alignment.
Another thing to look at is the upper and lower control arm bushings where the arms attach to the frame. If you feel slop that you can't find, it might be in those.

Also push/pull side to side along the horizontal of the tire, this will show slop in steering linkages too. Keep in mind there is a huge difference between movement and slop - any ball socket in a steering system may move/twist when you check like this or by turning the wheel. Slop will show as a definite movement between the two parts you are looking at that the ball socket joins. The idler arm is not a ball socket, its play will look like a change in the angle of the arm in relation to its frame mount and where it grabs the center link.

Also, with the car off, have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth over the span that it just barely tries to turn the tires in each direction. Look where the steering shaft goes into the gearbox (remove the plastic cover if it's there, don't worry if you break it) and note how much the shaft turns, and look at the rubber 'rag joint' (looks like a disc wafer of car tire rubber joining the steering shaft to the input shaft), it should only just barely flex.
I'm not sure how much play is supposed to be in the steering box, but I wouldn't worry unless it's more than 45-90 degrees total. Also keep in mind that this amount of play is about twice what you can expect the closest to center your steering wheel is going to be. The more slop, the further 'off' your wheel can be and still have a 'good' alignment. A 'good' shop will re-tweak it a little after the post-test drive, but don't get your hopes up. If they are good like that, and skilled, they can get it pretty darn close.

[King_V]

Well, I haven't done the front-end exam yet like I should've . . and my ride seemed to improve a bit.

That had me a little suspicious, but I didn't worry.

Vibration came back. Seemed to be worse, and also seemed to go away at times. And, sometimes it was noisy. I started to suspect a bearing. But how can that be? I know the rotors were changed within the past 30k miles or so . . and I know I put new bearings in.


So, yeah, yesterday it got very noticeable. I'm still thinking it HAS to be a wheel bearing. I get home, and with the car sitting in the driveway, I jerk on the driver-side front wheel. Very slight shift and clunk noise. Passenger side does NOT do this.

Following my suspicions, I got a new rotor and bearings. I'd've just replaced the bearings and races, but I can't figure out for the life of me how to get the race out of the rotor/hub! Plus, I was on a time crunch.

Anyway, the nut that holds the rotor in place was loose . . I was able to easily spin it with my hand.

Pull things apart - and the outer wheel bearing seemed fine . .until I got all the way around it, and lo and behold, one roller was crooked and the bit of metal separating it from the next roller was simply not present. Yikes.

I hope the looseness/clunking was BECAUSE the bearing crapped out (with only 20k miles, it turned out) . . and I am hoping it was NOT because I was careless in following the tightening procedure when I did the job last time. I really REALLY hope I wasn't that sloppy!

Eh, but I don't think I've even seen cheap-ass bearings fail that quickly... but...

[King_V]

Well, I haven't done the front-end exam yet like I should've . . and my ride seemed to improve a bit.

That had me a little suspicious, but I didn't worry.

Vibration came back. Seemed to be worse, and also seemed to go away at times. And, sometimes it was noisy. I started to suspect a bearing. But how can that be? I know the rotors were changed within the past 30k miles or so . . and I know I put new bearings in.


So, yeah, yesterday it got very noticeable. I'm still thinking it HAS to be a wheel bearing. I get home, and with the car sitting in the driveway, I jerk on the driver-side front wheel. Very slight shift and clunk noise. Passenger side does NOT do this.

Following my suspicions, I got a new rotor and bearings. I'd've just replaced the bearings and races, but I can't figure out for the life of me how to get the race out of the rotor/hub! Plus, I was on a time crunch.

Anyway, the nut that holds the rotor in place was loose . . I was able to easily spin it with my hand.

Pull things apart - and the outer wheel bearing seemed fine . .until I got all the way around it, and lo and behold, one roller was crooked and the bit of metal separating it from the next roller was simply not present. Yikes.

I hope the looseness/clunking was BECAUSE the bearing crapped out (with only 20k miles, it turned out) . . and I am hoping it was NOT because I was careless in following the tightening procedure when I did the job last time. I really REALLY hope I wasn't that sloppy!

Eh, but I don't think I've even seen cheap-ass bearings fail that quickly... but... anyway, time to drive it around a bit to see if that solved all the noises, shakes, etc.

[gadget73]

races come out with a punch and a hammer. Not really difficult, you face the bearing that needs to come out downward into a big socket or some suitable receptacle, get the punch on the inside edge, and tap around it. Drive them in with a socket just a CH smaller than the outside diameter of the new race. Nicer if you have an arbor press, but the hammer and socket method works.