getting the AOD tranny beefed up...

[1987cp]

Why should a garden-variety 351W necessarily enjoy a wider operating range any more than a comparable 302?

[Pirate]

Why should a garden-variety 351W necessarily enjoy a wider operating range any more than a comparable 302?

Because any decently-upgraded 351W has a broader torque range than any decently-upgraded 302.

[1987cp]

I don't understand. Isn't it just as easy to build either displacement engine to operate happily over nearly any desired RPM range? Or is this statement based on some anecdotal evidence I don't know about?

[gadget73]

It has something to do with the stroke. Longer stroke engines tend to have a wider torque curve where a short stroke engine is usually not going to fare as well. Thats why the 331 and 347 stroker engines are so popular.

[merc91]

my 302 I just built up in the car has lots of power between 2800- to upwards of 5500, it definenlty has more torque than the LOPO under 2500 RPM's, but not an abundance more compared to the higher end power. So once I get past 1st gear its right in the powerband for the other shifts at WOT which is great... its just a case of making 1st more effective.

With a 2400 non-lockup stall, and wide ratio to get my 1st gear putting out more usable power to the wheels I think it would be a good setup, and the non-lockup in my 3rd shift would be handy to keep it from bogging...but thats just what i'm thinking, i've never done this before so your comments are much appreciated.

[mrltd]

I don't understand. Isn't it just as easy to build either displacement engine to operate happily over nearly any desired RPM range? Or is this statement based on some anecdotal evidence I don't know about?

Mine is a unique case in what I am using the car for. I either have to go with less gear, a regular geared AOD, or a 5 speed. (or any combination of those) Each introduces more problems to the situation.

my 302 I just built up in the car has lots of power between 2800- to upwards of 5500, it definenlty has more torque than the LOPO under 2500 RPM's, but not an abundance more compared to the higher end power. So once I get past 1st gear its right in the powerband for the other shifts at WOT which is great... its just a case of making 1st more effective.

With a 2400 non-lockup stall, and wide ratio to get my 1st gear putting out more usable power to the wheels I think it would be a good setup, and the non-lockup in my 3rd shift would be handy to keep it from bogging...but thats just what i'm thinking, i've never done this before so your comments are much appreciated.

Mine bogs more on the 1-2 than the 2-3. Could be the VB I'm running. 1st just isn't very impressive, but a 50-60mph roll dropping to 2nd gear is damn impressive.

[87gtVIC]

I still never got a ride in your car. Though I had the best view for the most bad ass power slide in the rain! I never got to ride in a HO (or better panther) and have the owner romp on it with me in it. I want that experience.

[sly]

my AOD-w has balls from hell off the line... but drops to it's knees at about 30-50 feet. Stock lopo. The lower 1st and that lopo torque heavy cam gives it some nose lifting spirit compared to the stock AOD it came with. At WOT though, it weenies out first gear well before the shift point and second kicks like a mule and really pours on. 3rd however doesn't run well but pulls decently. The shift kit the shop used is probably not the best, but it's a wonderful improvement over the stock valve body (it actually down shifts as you slow down instead of hanging in OD until you hit the gas and then down shift to whatever gear is needed). The 2-3 is too soon and the 4-3 is rather late though. but as DD, it does well.

[1987cp]

Mine is a unique case in what I am using the car for. I either have to go with less gear, a regular geared AOD, or a 5 speed. (or any combination of those) Each introduces more problems to the situation.

True, true. Your particular concerns matter less for a vehicle not being autocrossed. Of course, your anecdotal evidence does seem to suggest that what works for AC does pretty well in terms of entertaining street performance as well.

But, I was actually meaning to needle Pirate, as he seemed to be claiming that a SBF of one stock displacement always has a wider powerband than the other.

[Pirate]

But, I was actually meaning to needle Pirate, as he seemed to be claiming that a SBF of one stock displacement always has a wider powerband than the other.

Well, you failed.

[1987cp]

Well, you failed.

Whether I failed or not is irrelevant; I don't see you bothering to clarify your obtuse statement.

[87gtVIC]

Stop the bickering please. Any excess bickering will be deleted.

[Pirate]

Stop the bickering please. Any excess bickering will be deleted.

What 'excess' bickering? This particular bickering falls well within normal tolerance levels. 'Excess' bickering clearly begins whenever I start quoting Lincoln.

Whether I failed or not is irrelevant; I don't see you bothering to clarify your obtuse statement.

It's been my experience with both 302's and 351w's, that the 302 has been a bit peaky so far as power production is concerned (the modern EFI intakes allow this engine to 'cheat' with the torque production), with the 5.0 benefiting from a transmission with closer gear ratios....while most EFI 351w's (and warmed-over carbed 5.8's, as well) have more of a flat torque curve, which can take advantage of a wide-ratio gearset.

However you want to look at it, I think the AOD gear ratio should have stayed, as a car that stays closer to the HP and torque peaks accelerates faster (why CVT-style transmissions work so well....in theory), but it needs an additional, lower 1st gear to help it out of the hole....or just switch to a 5-speed.