1987cp's new '81 LTD 2-door

[1987cp]

Dead in the water, again?

Yay, I'm starting to suspect that the engine has somehow self-immolated, though in a way that causes a horrid vibration only at idle. Wonder how that could work? Anyway, I tried a different torque converter and a brandy-new harmonic balancer (the flexplate checked out fine), and the vibration is still there, so I guess this car is unofficially off the road again.

I've been having the lousiest luck with this silly car!

On the bright side, it occurred to me that I could try starting the engine with no transmission attached (using my C4 bellhousing to bolt the starter to), and if it STILL jiggles and shakes I'll at least know I can stick the transmission in the P72 with confidence!

[1987cp]

Stupid annoyingness ... developed a crazy noise/vibration problem after taking it for a drive yesterday noonish. Posted on ClickClick and though I didn't directly ask it, Dan confirmed that 99% of imbalance problems are the flexplate or converter. I do have another converter I could toss in, and there are worse things in life than having to jerk the transmission again. Still, really annoying that I couldn't in good faith drive it to church last night - when I'd been somewhat anxious to get it done before the church kids' club started up for the fall!

[85crownHPP]

'bout time!!!!

[1987cp]

That'd be annoying. But I guess it'd be less trouble to check on it in a while than to have real problems later on! This transmission's still nearly new as far as usage - I had it built for me in '04, but I doubt it has much more than 5000 miles on it.

[sly]

you may need to change the filter soon as there may be lots of lacquered up crap loosing it's coating.

[1987cp]

"New" transmission is in!

Wow, it's been a long time since I posted in this thread! As of today, the '81 is officially back on the road! I yanked the old transmission on Tuesday and got the "new" one physically in place, spent a bunch of time yesterday hooking things up, and today I installed the driveshaft and TV cable (and fabricated a little bracket for it) and added about 9 or 10 quarts of ATF.

Annoyances included ending up with a goodly bit of spillage when I'd blindly assumed I'd have to add 12 quarts of DexMerc, and it started overflowing partway through the third gallon, and then when I took it for an initial drive around the block, it wouldn't shift! But tonight I took it WOT on a nearby road with a higher-than-25mph speed limit, and it condescended to shift into Second and then Third, after which it shifted into Second probably 70% of the time during a little low-speed tootling, so I'm thinking it's going to loosen itself up and be okay.

:banana:

[1987cp]

Tach occurred to me, but I found that she hadn't been paying attention to the temp gauge on the Vic, which had been running warmer than I like since the cold weather was keeping my thermal switch colder. Maybe if I put the big AutoGage up on the column where you had it .... maybe...

Since this engine seems quite decent for how basic it is (kind of like another dead-simple engine we've had fun driving behind), I think keeping it super-simple, and as cheap as I can manage, is key.

[torquelover]

I have a bad feeling my mom may have Neutral-slammed the guts out of this thing. Makes sense, as the previous day she was sitting in the driveway with her foot halfway to the floor, and I had to open the door and shout to alert her to the fact. She's never been one to intentionally do something crazy with cars, but if she really couldn't hear that the engine was racing to the wazoo ....

If you put in a tach, would she pay any attention to it? Good way to get someone killed. Might not want your Wife or little boy anywhere near the car when she's coming or going.

Would you consider a newer engine/trans swap? EFI and electronically controlled auto? All kinds of drivetrains for sale cheap out here on the local Mustang forums. Some Termi setups, too, if you wanted to go totally insane.

[1987cp]

I have a bad feeling my mom may have Neutral-slammed the guts out of this thing. Makes sense, as the previous day she was sitting in the driveway with her foot halfway to the floor, and I had to open the door and shout to alert her to the fact. She's never been one to intentionally do something crazy with cars, but if she really couldn't hear that the engine was racing to the wazoo ....

Guess I'd best call State Farm today and cancel my liability insurance on this car, as I doubt it'll be going anywhere for at least a couple of months.

[87gtVIC]

You have a link to that summit kit? Cheap enough to get me interested lol.

EDIT: I found it. Surprisingly it was easy to find. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRG-AOD-HIREV/

[1987cp]

Its second nature. I never have to think about what my extremities are doing when I am driving a stick shift (which is every day). You get so used to it that is just happens.

Sounds right. When I finally got so I was smooth and reliable with the Suzuki, my mental trick was to think about my left foot performing the job of a torque converter. Yep, the women-folks thought I was completely bonkers, but couldn't deny that I'd quit stalling the thing 4 times out of 5.

I have become so accustomed to the Dodge, that I can take off from a stop smoothly without touching the gas.

Several years ago I took a Mustang II King Cobra (302-2V/SROD) around the block to make sure it stopped, and noticed that I had relatively little trouble despite my lack of skill. (This was years before the Suzuki experiments, and my only experience prior had been a rather harrowing test drive in an '86 Prelude.) In retrospect, I think this was attributable to a combination of the 302's superior low-end torque characteristics (especially compared to the amazingly weak Suzuki engine) and gearing closer to what I've always been used to from a 3.27 geared automatic car. I can easily imagine that with a torquey engine and a little delicacy with the left foot, it could indeed be possible to pull away without touching the gas. Not so on that awful little Suzuki, though! I tried taking off in Second once or twice, thinking that'd save some trouble since First buzzed through the revs by 15mph, but no luck, the dumb thing just died and thumbed its nose at me. Yep, that car had a 25,000:1 initial drive ratio for a reason.

Once you have driven one for a while, you start to experiment with rev matching shifts, shifting without the clutch, double clutching, etc, to find out what delivers the smoothest shift.

Interestingly, I found it really easy to figure out how to match revs whilst downshifting. The vehicle's owner, on the other hand, NEVER matched revs, at least while I was in the car (and getting thoroughly sloshed around as a result), despite decades of experience driving FWD/stick cars. Maybe some poeple actually like getting sloshed around and letting the synchros do all the work?

That would be a nice project Michael, but does not make sense when you have an AOD around to drop in.

Quite. I was just looking at governor and valvebody combos ... Summit has the HIREV governor kit for a whole $25, and a SilverFox SPT-R valvebody is $300. Even adding in some odds and ends, that's around $350ish as a starting point for what ought to produce what I'd consider a relatively exotic AOD setup (compared to what I have experience with, anyway). And obviously, making do with the stock valvebody knocks $300 off that total. Looks like it'd be a crapshoot whether I could even score a good T5, etc. for that $350ish price, let alone the clutch, linkages, shifter, and possible driveshaft yoke swappage. The extra $300 is hardly worthwhile for a get-the-car-mobile-again project, but after years of putting up with automatics of the never-shift-when-or-how-you-want-them-to variety, it'd be *awfully* nice to have one configured more decently for a change.

[P72Ford]

My Uncle shifts his tractors this way. Find the right rev's and everything falls right into place.

I have not driven a manual by myself ever. Dad let me drive his mustang a couple years back and I did fine..only stalled once and took her out on the highway and all. I understand the concept and how everything works I just lack much real world experience to jump right into a manual and drive. I need to learn more.

I first learned when I was 12. My Dad presented my brother's and I with a 236K mile '81 Honda Civic, 5 spd, as a 'learning tool'.

We had other 'learning tools' after the Civic died.

When I got my permit I had gone to the DMV with my Dad. When we came out he instructed me to drive his car carrier home. Nice. With as many miles as it had on it then, it was quite an experience. Very little road feel, a wandering wheel, all that good stuff.

But I cut my teeth on his big trucks, one with a Clark 5 spd (and a dual range axle), 1 with a Spicer 5 spd, and one with a 6+1. I first experimented without using the clutch on the Spicer, and just perfected the technique from there.

A real learn experience is driving our pulling machine. With straight cut gears in the 4 spd primary and 5 spd auxillary, there is no room for error. There was much grinding when I started playing with it. But now I can pretty much drive it around, although the shift sequence is obscure, and downshifting is very troublesome.

I should get some video of that.

[rick99601]

a cable clutch that you can actually feel and the stock (heavy) flywheel make taking off in my mustang with no throttle very easy. my buddys SL2 with a lightweight flywheel and hydraulic clutch means you need throttle to take off (like the beetle) or youlll stall.

the only thing you 'need' a clutch for is starting out and down shifting. all other gears can be floated with any amount of skill.

david- go hop in the mustang and take it out. the worst you could do is burn up the clutch, which is highly unlikely.
go to a parking lot and practice starting off. get going and stop, over and over. that mustang is very easy to drive (provided the clutch cable isnt stretched out.) it shouldnt take long at all to get comfortable.

[87gtVIC]

I have become so accustomed to the Dodge, that I can take off from a stop smoothly without touching the gas.

Impressive.

I always find it interesting when folks try and tell me that it is not possible to shift the transmission without the clutch. Its actually quite easy to do.

My Uncle shifts his tractors this way. Find the right rev's and everything falls right into place.

I have not driven a manual by myself ever. Dad let me drive his mustang a couple years back and I did fine..only stalled once and took her out on the highway and all. I understand the concept and how everything works I just lack much real world experience to jump right into a manual and drive. I need to learn more. Dad asks every so often if I want to drive his mustang..I just say no because this is the first car he ever bought and he had it since new in '85. I would hate to mess it up.

That would be a nice project Michael, but does not make sense when you have an AOD around to drop in.

[P72Ford]

Not so keen on them in actual traffic, though - learned that test-driving a used Cav with a particularly grabby clutch in the northern Detroit suburbs. Up in Alaska, they didn't really have normal traffic as you or I understand it, so that made it lots easier to take the time to think about what your left foot is doing.

I can always tell when I am talking with someone who is either inexperienced with manual transmissions, has never driven one, or who doesn't drive one daily.

Its second nature. I never have to think about what my extremities are doing when I am driving a stick shift (which is every day). You get so used to it that is just happens.

I bet if you ask most people that daily drive a stick, they would tell you that they don't find it bothersome or inconvenient, even in traffic. I personally just leave it in first or second, and roll it out. I have become so accustomed to the Dodge, that I can take off from a stop smoothly without touching the gas.

Once you have driven one for a while, you start to experiment with rev matching shifts, shifting without the clutch, double clutching, etc, to find out what delivers the smoothest shift.

Different cars take some getting used to, though, for some people. My Mom has an '04 Turbo Beetle, 5 spd, that she drives everyday. She was not able to drive my truck well, when I gave her the chance.

Her car is much different from my truck, especially since the flywheel seems to have very little inertia. It winds up and decelerates very quickly, where my truck will hold the revs a little longer. In order to get a truly smooth shift in the Beetle, I have to blip the gas in order the match the rpms. In my truck, if you time the shift right, there is no need to blip the gas, unless you are double clutching, which I occasionally do.

I always find it interesting when folks try and tell me that it is not possible to shift the transmission without the clutch. Its actually quite easy to do.