1987cp's new '81 LTD 2-door

[Lincolnmania]

Cool. I'm at that point with my S-10 and Putter Project. I can't take Putter Project on long trips (to work; 30 miles each way) until I get the clutch adjustment kit from LMC. My father must have made a temporary/permanent repair on the original adjustment rod by welding a nub on the tip to take up the space of the well-worn area. It has worked up until now; that 3-speed trans won't shift into and out of 1st without literally slamming the gear. Reverse grinds into gear as well. I found out that he replaced the clutch sometime within the last few years. My S-10 has been breaking down as of late and is becoming quite unreliable. Which sticks me with borrowing my mom's CV; which I'm trying to avoid driving to work due to the idiots on the roads these days.

How about that 351W you got out of the P72? You got any plans for that? Is that going back into the P72 or is it going into the 2-door? Excuse the French, but you got some badaz cars and that engine would be an awesome addition to any of them.



Packman

i have a nice solid 89 town car that you could be commuting in reliably

[1987cp]

LOL ... I've got some badly rusty cars, you mean! This one is far and away the cleanest and most solid, and I cut a rust hole out of the floor and found a gaping one in the framerail.

I was worried for a while that I was going to have to bring the 351W out of retirement sooner and with less dignity than expected, right up to the point where I realized that this '87 302 might only need a flexplate. So, I guess I can continue harboring my notion of leaving the 351 on a stand until I've had a look at the bottom end and installed better heads and intake.

[packman]

Cool. I'm at that point with my S-10 and Putter Project. I can't take Putter Project on long trips (to work; 30 miles each way) until I get the clutch adjustment kit from LMC. My father must have made a temporary/permanent repair on the original adjustment rod by welding a nub on the tip to take up the space of the well-worn area. It has worked up until now; that 3-speed trans won't shift into and out of 1st without literally slamming the gear. Reverse grinds into gear as well. I found out that he replaced the clutch sometime within the last few years. My S-10 has been breaking down as of late and is becoming quite unreliable. Which sticks me with borrowing my mom's CV; which I'm trying to avoid driving to work due to the idiots on the roads these days.

How about that 351W you got out of the P72? You got any plans for that? Is that going back into the P72 or is it going into the 2-door? Excuse the French, but you got some badaz cars and that engine would be an awesome addition to any of them.



Packman

[1987cp]

Pretty much. I'm very relieved to have two cars at my disposal again. The Vic hasn't always been wanting to start for me (ignition problems - I've now replaced everything except the module with new stuff), and I'm tired of it running not and not wanting to back up ... and the HVAC fan not working well .... and no high speed wipers ..... if the '81 continues in its present overall condition, I can have far fewer worries about having signed my son up for the church kids' club on Wednesdays!

[packman]

Better you than me. *ducks rotten tomatoe* I guess this is why you got three Panthers. When two go down, you at least have the one left. Hopefully this solves your Panther woes so you can focus on the other projects.



Packman

[1987cp]

Took another drive today. Slight bit of noisiness where I suspect this flexplate's thickish weight is hitting the aluminum engine plate, but otherwise drives just the same as before the old flexplate went wonky. I feel a little sore about the $60 for the balancer, but most say you're supposed to replace those when you rebuild the engine anyway. And Dorman already painted it, so I don't have to.

Swapped the ailing p/s pump yesterday for another one that's .... not ailing quite so much. Had to yank the pulley to move the mounting bolt from the 351W position, otherwise not a lot of trouble.

Today I installed the Summit TV corrector. It proved a little more trouble to install than the TCI corrector I bought for the Vic, but it's possible that was due to production differences in the Carter and Edelbrock AFBs. As often happens with kits, the bottom bolt options supplied were wonky (one too big, one supplied with the wrong nut), but I reused a nut/bolt from the Magic Bolt Box and all was well.


BTW, big thanks to you idiots for pointing out (as should have been obvious to me) that flexplate failure doesn't have to be catastrophic!

[1987cp]

Did a little test driving yesterday, and thing seem much better. Changed the oil (old stuff was BLACK!), topped off coolant and tranny fluid (wondering where a gallon-plus of coolant disappeared to ...), and adjusted the shift linkage so it goes more nicely into Drive.

[1987cp]

Picked one up at Carquest for more like $75. They were the only ones nearby with one in stock. Who knows, maybe it's actually better somehow than the $45 ones. Expensive, but it's nice to have a flexplate with no chewage on the teeth. It appeared at a glance to be sitting slightly further inside the bellhousing, and I repeated my bellhousing-only test to verify that it did appear to have sufficient space between the flexplate and the starter pinion.

So, the upshot is that the crazy vibration does seem to be about gone, and scuffy noises nearly gone. I do think I've developed a slight rod knock, so I'll probably just change the oil out with 10W40 and call it good for now. Thinking it maybe could have used a flexplate shim, but what little I can dig up online seems to suggest that that shouldn't usually be necessary. I also got the idea of butchering an engine plate to space the starter farther forward, so I guess I'll try that if I notice it scuffing again. Or, if I can set aside the money after spending $$$ on new balancey equipment, maybe I'll eventually put a modern-tech starter on this car too and quit worrying about the "bendix" arrangement.

[86VickyLX]

That'd make sense. I'll have to try checking for straightness on a bench, and also check whether the tooth grindage is only over part of the circumference. Wonder if it's worth the $45 to get a brand-new flexplate instead of a $20 used one?

Definitely go with a new one. Why deal with the hassle of swapping it later on if that flexplate turns out to be messed up also.

[1987cp]

That'd make sense. I'll have to try checking for straightness on a bench, and also check whether the tooth grindage is only over part of the circumference. Wonder if it's worth the $45 to get a brand-new flexplate instead of a $20 used one?

[86VickyLX]

Very interesting. I just pulled the starter and discovered curious wear marks on the pinion teeth, and corresponding sharp, bright spots on the flexplate teeth!


The bad news is that putting in my spare starter didn't make any difference.


So ..... if my whole problem is in fact the pinion hitting the flexplate (something that appears to be happening anyway, whatever its reason), either:

a) I really do need a flexplate shim ($20 at AZ, but I can probably check salvage sources),
b) I need to space the starter forward somehow (seems I've seen spacers for that purpose),
or
c) The flexplate itself has somehow gone bad in such a way as to still look OK but yet still flops into the starter pinion despite all six bolts appearing to still be tight! (nearby full-serve yard has flexplates for $20)

the flexplate is warped.

[1987cp]

Very interesting. I just pulled the starter and discovered curious wear marks on the pinion teeth, and corresponding sharp, bright spots on the flexplate teeth!


The bad news is that putting in my spare starter didn't make any difference.


So ..... if my whole problem is in fact the pinion hitting the flexplate (something that appears to be happening anyway, whatever its reason), either:

a) I really do need a flexplate shim ($20 at AZ, but I can probably check salvage sources),
b) I need to space the starter forward somehow (seems I've seen spacers for that purpose),
or
c) The flexplate itself has somehow gone bad in such a way as to still look OK but yet still flops into the starter pinion despite all six bolts appearing to still be tight! (nearby full-serve yard has flexplates for $20)

[1987cp]

Dash it, you're right, I didn't bother looking at the starter. I've got one or two extras I can try, too. I suppose a random pinion-catching could easily account for the noise I'm hearing! Too bad the flexplate already had some light tooth damage dating from ages past.

Not sure how the starter could "shift around" when securely located in the separator-plate hole and bolted down tight .... still, any solution that doesn't involve the crankshaft is simpler to deal with than a solution that does involve the crankshaft!

[gadget73]

Pull the starter and see if there is evidence of things hitting. Could be the starter bendix drive isn't pulling the gear back all the way and its catching randomly. I'm also assuming the starter is tight, they have a habit of getting loose and shifting around some.

[1987cp]

Tried the bellhousing-only test. Noticed less vibration, but then, some vibration was probably damped by having the frame resting on four jackstands. Still have the funny noise. Weirdly, the noise does sound (to my limited knowledge) somewhat like the flexplate weight hitting the starter snout, but I can't imagine why a flexplate shim would suddenly become necessary while the car is operating. I also can't imagine what could have happened to the bottom end that could result in a clunky vibration that seems to smooth out as the engine revs! Still, I'm getting shockingly good at removing and reinstalling an AOD, which means I can probably pop the tranny in the P72 before noon tomorrow and give it a go!